Harvester of Sorrow --> Hardstabber of Sorrow?

Dase

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There's 2 possible scenarios:

King Blend joins SW at the end or King Blend gets betrayed by SW at the end and doesn't get the spot in the winning tribe as promised and then he'll probably decide to release conversations to prove that SW won by manipulating his stupid ass.

Similar to w35, only 1 player from SW has any character.The same one from w35.Cali.Everyone else seems to be cool with what happened.

Also, it so happens that despite the fact that he's not among the biggest accounts, Cali is probably the best player in SW.You get to be among the best by fighting and playing fair(ish).Sucks that he's not the leader of SW.We might've actually seen a real war.
 

DeletedUser7985

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It's a tough situation.
In this game you are forced to play and communicate with the same group of people for months. If you don't have a good relation with most of your tribe and particularly your leader, you will have an awful time there. That's not the feelings you should take from a game you play on your free time.
However, I'd say things should have been made more respectfully towards TBD, taking more time to perform the switch and letting everyone know and prepare for it. Although, you can end up screwed if you try to do it the right way.
 

Dase

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Nah, what should've happened is harvester should have left without taking internals/pretending to be at parties while sitting people under op or feeding info to the enemy.I agree that if you are going to leave, letting people know in advance is not a good idea.But you can ask for prestacks from the tribe you are going in and you don't have to take a piss on your old tribe the way he did.I really do hope SW gets the same treatment in the future.Would be nice to see 1-2 top players in SW leave in a similar manner and then I wonder if the people who supported Harvester with his actions will have nothing but good things to say about the ones stabbing them.
 

DeletedUser8336

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I dont take any world win here seriously :)

W37 win wouldve been a nice win if this didnt happen, now its just another flop again

btw look Look at ratedE's profile:rolleyes: funny as hell that they mention the co's of pam as being the "bad guys"

I'm a bad guy, everyone knows it :s Only thing I want to say about it (RatedE profile), I never spied for someone else. We laughed of some chats that were posted with our friends but nothing about villages caps,... We didn't have command share and they didn't told us a lot about their plans so idk how we could have said to Kurn (I guess that's the story?) about when he would hit a villa... But yeah ^^

Actually I had great times in RatedE, learned to know few players there that are good guys and I wish them the best. As I (and peace) told to Sigis, some players in SW really deserve a win. Others does not. And the thing that made us (Jake and I) upset was the Harvester moove. We really don't care about a world win or beeing eaten in a week if that has to happen. But I don't appreciate the moove Harvester did and I believe we all can imagine how the world would go if that continued like that. I'm happy few other RatedE players wanted some more fun in this world, and now maybe all SW players will deserve this win. Some have prooven it, some still do I believe.

I'm happy to hold some more suspens in this world for few more days (yeah now RatedE can still loose and SW can be alone in the world... Even if I believe they will find someone else to hug if needed^^)
I'm happy to give some RatedE some challenge cause that war against DALEKS wasn't fun at all... the 4 players who had villas near us deleted... So yeah I want some fun. I don't have lot of time now so I guess we will loose pretty soon but I want to take this challenge and let them deserve this win. (Cause yeah, even if some SW members deserve the win, RatedE didn't had much to do for now so if I can give them challenge).

How stuff happened I won't write a Bible about it. But yeah we can say I'm a backstabber,... I can find some screenshot where I said I knew even before to talk to blend about it that he'll never go against SW and that SW will always now about every single message we'll send to him. So yeah he's a loyal guy and I have to recognize it. His friends can really be proud to have him as friend. But TW-community can be sad to have a player who won't look for challenge...

Now about AoD owner (won't mention any name but you'll know about who I'm speaking), she wasn't there last few days, so I apologize to all her friends if we 'betrayed' you (even if Sigis knew about our intentions since few days, so wasn't even a huge backstab ?). She wasn't involved in our decision.

I wish you'll a good war, and I want to say, let's all have fun. If I've to quit this world soon, I would be happy with what I've done, giving this world at least one day more suspens (and if you're to confident about the end of this, I can swear that Peace and I won't abandon that quickly :') At least we've already destroyed some nukes... ).

-Lama
 

DeletedUser8123

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This is false, the gunner account was inactive for about a day. We had the account sit and attacked you multiple times with it. There was drama on 36 that carrier over to 37 that caused us to loose the sit.

The day we lost the sit, was also the day PG started to take villages, I think it’s safe to assume the reason for that is because harvester tipped y’all off.

But here is what’s different, shurtu never passed us any info about your tribe, claims or villages.
Shurtu didn’t take over 20 internals before leaving.

Actually i took a Blowguner village before you lost the sit. 488|477. And i was scouting others pretty regularly. And then suddenly the almost daily fakes stopped. Me and Blowguner had been trading fakes all world, whenever one of us attacked the other, the other one would get on and throw back a fake or two.

And you can assume Sorrow told me and i could even deny it with the fact the 36 drama isn't a secret and there's other players in SW who are also there on 36, and point out that someone who comes back to take a sit from you could just as easily have sent a message to an enemy as a big FU. A former SW player was even a co player on Blowguner on 36.

But it doesn't matter does it? You guys are going to believe what you're going to believe, which is cool. Just like how i'm not buying the Shurtu didn't spy for you guys part. Every time Shurtu was messaged about helping stack a village you guys were hitting, suddenly the hits stopped, and every time he knew about where we were going to hit back, we hit a big stack. Cause now even if he wasn't actually spying for you guys, it looks like he did right?

You lost the sit. Even if Sorrow had come over right then instead of waiting for a couple days, could you guys have done much about it? Like i said they don't count as internals in my book, cause nobody had control of the account and they were fair game. Looking at it just from a troops standpoint, SW and Bubbles ended up with like 8-10 and you couldn't stop just that part, how could you have stopped Sorrow too? Sorrow would have ended up with a large number of them anyway, if not all of them, and not even counting the possibility he could have taken more than he did end up with. Blowguner screwed you out of those villages either way, not Sorrow.
The more posts i see here from SW the more clear it gets. You jumping ships harvester was planned probably from day 1. If you rather play with friends you got in SW, why did you join a tribe you knew would be their enemy? Theres only one correct answer to that.
Actually, no. It was months after the world started before we even talked to Sorrow, and that was because Sorrow thought the alliance between Max and Wicked was lame. You know, that huge alliance between TBD/TBD./Badboys/Blade that recruiting Shurtu messed up? While TBD was also working with DS. That was like 5 of the 6 top tribes working together. Nobody in TBD was complaining about unfair odds then, were you?

But again, it doesn't matter. Cause you guys will believe what y'all wanna believe, as is your right.
And tasmanian got punished hard for it

He joined my tribe and I was extremely mad about that, I literally enjoyed it that he was being nobeled by his former tribe. Thats what he deserved
Yeaaaah you still took advantage of it and accepted the world win didn't you? And accepted Alin252 and YNMTS coming over to FMIAB too, didn't you? And y'all used the sit nasotm left you when he quit to mess with Kush behind the lines too, but ehh. What do i know? Other than the fact you're sitting here saying players changing tribes isn't normal and is a scummy move when you yourself have done it in the past. With 3 of the #2 tribe players, not just one.
 
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Im not Crazy Henkie.

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@Sigismund325 the difference is that you are trying to talk it right, while I have always been against those things even on W31.

What you also have to know is that A) I was active at all on W31 after we hitted 1mil points (so lets say the last 4-5 months of the world) and B) my co had spent 500-1000 euros in the early game which I have to keep in mind while making decisions whether to leave a tribe after such an action or not.

If I was solo there would definitely be a chance that I had left the tribe for such reasons, but you dont know what I said about those actions ingame, do you?



There is no denying that sorrow made a dirty move, but we've said that enough now... the only card that you are drawing is "but he and he did it as well"

If you shoot someone in RL, and your lawyer defends you by "but he and he did it as well", well... good luck in prison LOL


He was wrong, I can understand that if you're friends with him you keep playing with him (you have all the right to do so), but I can also understand that people will avoid him to prevent such actions from happening again (at least from him, no doubt that someone else will do it on another world)
 

DeletedUser8123

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I know i don't know everything that happened there, and i'm not judging you for what happened. Cause that was my first world and i had no clue what was going on half the time. FMIAB also did a lot of awesome fighting and i think they deserved the win. I'm just pointing out it's messy to judge people for leaving tribes when you've tolerated it in the past. I believe you argued against it, but you still rolled with it. Just like how it doesn't matter that i argued against Max coming over in W35 but i still ultimately rolled with it, cause it wasn't my call and i didn't want to fight my friends.

I haven't been trying to say it wasn't a dirty move. I actually feel kinda bad about it, mostly cause Rattlesnake is such a stand up dude, and i respect how he's been fighting all world. I'm learning a lot trying and mostly failing to fight him. But I don't really know the rest of TBD, and it's not my job to make sure things are fair for them, especially cause they haven't been worried about things being fair for SW. It's my job to look after my people, SW.

I've been saying TBD as whole has been fighting dirty all world and doesn't have the moral high ground to stand on like they're pretending to. Y'all were cool with bringing Shurtu over and StoneCold tried to bring me over too. You guys took it there first. And you can try to say how Shurtu was different cause of this or that, and that's your opinion and thats cool. But at that point you're only arguing about the exact circumstances, not the original action in the first place. You didn't see me get on the forum and whine about how unfair that was, did you? It almost screwed over the K44 SW. It got even more desperate for us for awhile.

To use your example about shooting someone in real life, it is literally the best legal defense to say "he shot at me first, so i shot back". And guess what? The judge would give you a high five as you left the courtroom. Self defense. The dead person lost their right to demand justice cause they tried to kill you first. It doesn't matter if you used more escalation of force than they did. Like they tried to shoot you with a handgun so you used a bazooka on them.
 

Dase

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To use your example about shooting someone in real life, it is literally the best legal defense to say "he shot at me first, so i shot back". And guess what? The judge would give you a high five as you left the courtroom. Self defense. The dead person lost their right to demand justice cause they tried to kill you first. It doesn't matter if you used more escalation of force than they did. Like they tried to shoot you with a handgun so you used a bazooka on them.

Wrong.If you shoot someone and leave and they survive and kill you the next day, they go to jail.If they fire back at that exact moment, then it is self defense.You will go to jail for shooting someone who shot you 10 years ago.You will not go to jail for shooting someone who is shooting at you right now or is pointing a gun at you with clear intentions of using the gun against you.

I mean, you are right regarding the fact that you are allowed to use a bazooka against a gun if someone intends to shoot you, but it's all about the timing.So what Thijs said is 100% true.The argument that "he did it as well" would not work, not by itself.You need a context for that argument to be valid.
 

DeletedUser8231

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THis is a war game, but it has its own SOCIAL ASPECT. In tribalwars we have 2 words. TRIBE = a bunch of ppl and Wars =/ hugs (for you ratedsh!t ;) )
)

I wanted to have the alliance end so we could do a free for all on w37, however, peacepoacher/lama handled their proposal poorly (and threw out some insults when the argument heated up) and so now that hope is certainly dashed.

I dont take any world win here seriously :)

W37 win wouldve been a nice win if this didnt happen, now its just another flop again

btw look Look at ratedE's profile:rolleyes: funny as hell that they mention the co's of pam as being the "bad guys"

Lama/peacepoacher certainly posed themselves that way. The initial suggestion to end the alliance and fight for our own win was well worded and well thought. But it crumbled when they stopped taking the calm and calculated approach. I vouched for them in the discussion. I already had the chance to join SW a few weeks ago when I left Daleks bc I was unhappy with being taken advantage of by Old Warrior/Kurn's tricks. I decided against it, mostly for positioning reasons but also because even though many of the SW members are my friends, RatedE proposed the chance for more of a challenge. When I saw what Lama/peacepoacher were getting at, I jumped right on that train. A chance for some real tribalwars gmaeplay ?? I never thought I'd see it once harvester swapped sides. I contemplated quitting simply because that swap really does determine the outcome of the world, and I already got my free win on 35.

I see everyone on these threads complaining about hugging/backstabbing, but I don't see anyone's gameplay reflect how angry they seem to be..
 

DeletedUser8123

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Wrong.If you shoot someone and leave and they survive and kill you the next day, they go to jail.If they fire back at that exact moment, then it is self defense.You will go to jail for shooting someone who shot you 10 years ago.You will not go to jail for shooting someone who is shooting at you right now or is pointing a gun at you with clear intentions of using the gun against you.

I mean, you are right regarding the fact that you are allowed to use a bazooka against a gun if someone intends to shoot you, but it's all about the timing.So what Thijs said is 100% true.The argument that "he did it as well" would not work, not by itself.You need a context for that argument to be valid.

The problem with that example is that there has been no pauses. The fight between TBD and SW has been ongoing all world since it started. It's still the same fight, there has been no cessation of hostilities. There's been no "the next day" or "10 years later". It's all still the same fight. That's like saying dropping the A-bombs on Japan was wrong just because it was 4 years after Pearl Harbor. The same war was still going on those 4 years, it just took 4 years to be able to finally hit back.

Above you were saying you hope someone in SW does the exact same thing to SW that Sorrow did to TBD. So you're saying it's cool to leave a tribe as revenge for someone else leaving a tribe? Cause if that's true, wouldn't that mean what Sorrow did in the first place is cool? Cause TBD did it first with Shurtu.
 
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PsychoViking

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Above you were saying you hope someone in SW does the exact same thing to SW that Sorrow did to TBD. So you're saying it's cool to leave a tribe as revenge for someone else leaving a tribe? Cause if that's true, wouldn't that mean what Sorrow did in the first place is cool? Cause TBD did it first with Shurtu.

Your still trying to justify hes tribe swap?
He still backstabbed people who thought they were friends. They didnt deserve that at all
 

DeletedUser8123

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What happened between Sorrow and his friends is their business. He laid out his reasons, if you don't like them or think they're trash that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'm talking about all the TBD guys in here complaining about backstabbing and tribe swapping when TBD did the exact same thing with Shurtu. Chill vouched for Shurtu and thought he was friends with him just the same, and then TBD still took Shurtu over in the middle of the night with no warning to anyone. Where were all these people complaining about this then?
 

PsychoViking

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Since this thread was made to discuss Harvester of Sorrows backstab, i understand the tbd guys only complain about that case.

All you SW players just trying to use other similar situations as an excuse for this one. I know nothing about the shurtu deal, but in this thread the shurtu situation isnt relevant
 

DeletedUser8123

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So...a TBD backstab of SW isn't relevant to SW giving them a taste of their own medicine? You're sitting here condemning all of SW for doing exactly what TBD did previously in the same world and the best you can say is, "but this thread was made for Sorrow not Shurtu?"

I'm sorry but that's nonsense. It's very relevant. Especially for the TBD guys being hypocritical saying "ohh SW is the worst, backstabbing is evil, and i won't take any SW win seriously" when they did the exact same thing. But it's even relevant for outside observers. Wars are fought like to like. If the enemy builds airplanes, you build airplanes, if the enemy uses nuclear weapons you use them back. In TW terms, if the enemy cats your farms, cat him back. If someone puts together an alliance of tribes against you, go get your own allies. And if the enemy steals your players, try to steal some back. TBD took it to this level. SW gave like to like.
 

PsychoViking

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You complain about tbd only complaining about the harvester of sorrow backstab. Simply beacuse this this thread is named Backstabber of Sorrow.

I understand your point sigis, i wont comment or argue any other situations as i dont know enough about them.

But what harvester did , was a traitor move and an huge backstab to several.
The shurtu situation might have been as bad, i dont know. But it doesnt change the harvester situation.

My opinion in all this is that you dont do this to people that consider you as a friend, who you gave impression of being their friend, and even talking them into playing a world with you just to screw them off and jump ships. This is the part in this situation that cant be considered anything else than what it is , for whatever other reasons harvester had to make the decision.
 

DeletedUser8123

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I was trying to point out that TBD was only complaining about backstabs when it was against them, none of them voiced objections in this forum when it was in their favor.

Fair enough man. I'm defending SW as a whole in this situation. Sorrow laid out his reasons for his level of things, and that's his business. Everyone is entitled to their opinions about that. I'm defending SW as a whole. I understand the TBD guys Sorrow was friendly with feeling the way they do. I've been there myself, here on this world and also on 31 where i woke up to incoming nukes from someone who'd been in my tribe when i went to sleep.

But this is my point. When Shurtu came over, these same players that are now condemning Harvester of Sorrow for breaking their trust were cool with Shurtu breaking SW's trust. Shurtu's friends, Shurtu's allies, Shurtu's tribe who needed his defense at the time. They didn't stop it, they didn't warn SW, they didn't apologize after. They didn't turn around and leave their tribe like Dase is suggesting SW players should do. Reign of Blood, the guy Sorrow talked into joining the world, didn't come out and say "no you guys, Shurtu betraying Chill when Chill talked Shurtu into playing seriously instead of PP farming isn't okay."

So therefore, it must not be a player breaking trust with their tribe or betraying friends they're mad at or object to. It's specifically Harvester of Sorrow doing that. So it's personal between them and Harvester of Sorrow. And that personal beef is their business.

That's between them. But on a tribal level, it just doesn't make sense for people to apply it to all of SW. SW responded with like against like to what has already been done against us.
 

Im not Crazy Henkie.

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No-one of PG openly complained about shurtru I believe, so it was hard to discuss it ;)

Besides that, although shurtru moving might also be dirty, this move had way more impact on the world and the internals make it worse.

But I has been a few days now and I think that the points if both sides are clear...

Tbh I am glad that I made this topic, discussions like this are actually pretty fun to have. And look at the amount of posts in the last 2 days :D

For me this will be the last thing ive said about this topic, unless I really have to reply at someone.

I wish all players on this world a good end-fight (sadly I only have 3 villages so cant make an impact ^^) and I hope we will see some suprises :)
 

DeletedUser8123

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What good would complaining about it have done? :p When i'm disadvantaged, i get to work scaving and fighting, not taking my problems to a forum. :cool:

I agree Sorrow had more of an impact than Shurtu, but i think dirty is dirty. If it's all about the impact it has on the world, then it doesn't matter about doing the right or the wrong thing, it only matters how it impacts the whole world:(

You're absolutely correct about the points having been made and i've also said what i came to say. Thanks for the conversation, and i hope everyone has a good rest of the world as well. I'm excited to see how the Rune Villages appearing affects things, i've never played a Rune World before.
 

Dase

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That's like saying dropping the A-bombs on Japan was wrong just because it was 4 years after Pearl Harbor. The same war was still going on those 4 years, it just took 4 years to be able to finally hit back.

Above you were saying you hope someone in SW does the exact same thing to SW that Sorrow did to TBD. So you're saying it's cool to leave a tribe as revenge for someone else leaving a tribe? Cause if that's true, wouldn't that mean what Sorrow did in the first place is cool? Cause TBD did it first with Shurtu.


It wasn't wrong just because it was 4 years after pearl harbor.It was wrong because it shouldn't have gone that far.Basically shurtu leaving was Pearl Harbor, a normal thing that sometimes happens in wars.Harvester planning this for weeks, giving you info, stealing internals as he left, that was the A-Bomb.Harvester was right to leave, sure.I don't deny the fact that he had reasons to leave.But he had no reason that excuses the way he left, just like America has no excuse for killing millions of innocent civilians with the A-bomb in your example.They were right to strike back perhaps, but they did it in the wrong manner.


I did say I hope SW gets the same treatment.But TBD didn't do it first with Shurtu.TBD recruited someone from SW.SW did way more than that.You cannot deny the fact that harvester has been feeding you info for a while.You cannot deny that the manner in which he left is far worse than shurtu's(although I don't believe shurtu's move was a good thing either, don't get me wrong).


Besides, no one is blaming SW for taking him in.SW were selfish and took the chance they got, not the greatest thing they could do, but that's ok.But when you betray friends, it's all on you.Everyone seems to fail to see this.No one is telling you sigismund that you are a traitor(although from my experience you are too), you are saying SW did this as response to TBD doing it.But it doesn't matter what SW and TBD did.It's what the players did.Shurtu and Harvester.Both betrayed, both shouldn't be trusted in the future.But if I had to make a pick I'd pick shurtu due to the way he left, much more respectable than Harvester.
 

PsychoViking

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You cant blaim Reign for not pointing out the Shurtu situation. That responsibility is all on you guys, how could that situation been made clear if you guys didnt bring it up to discussion. Instead you guys choose to point it out now 2 months later to try make another backstab look ok.
 
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