Has premium ruined world 6

[DeletedUser]

I don't want to rain on anyone's party, but if the group you are talking about, has growth as slow as yours, then you guys won't be doing much of anything

Agreed. Most of the ~ED~ players do not have a fast growth, and one of our men just got his main village nobled (it has been recovered by me by now). I do intend to give you some challenge later on. The account started 8 days later, and didn't grow at all for the first 4 days of playing (I got on the account after 4 days of playing by an inactive, inexperienced player who wasn't even near LC yet) and we just entered top 20. Right now we're still growing in ranks every day, so by the time we are anywhere near IDC, if we keep this growth up, we'll be about top 10 at least.

Of course I'm not capable of bringing down IDC just by myself, but damnit I'll give you one hell of a fight for my villages

 

[DeletedUser]

The IDC bashing is getting a little annoying. I'm surrounded by them and likely to be rimmed in the near future and I'm not complaining too much. It is true that they made this into an uncompetitive world but their forum presence is good enough that I don't blame them. They didn't cheat in any way. They followed the rules completely. Plus they don't even act arrogant about the fact that they are dominating. They are honest about it but so far they have been very mature and respectful. I don't think they deserve the reputation they currently have.

If you want to see arrogance, feel free to read their Journal entry

And I'm not bashing them through pointing out that they are a premade, nor accusing them of breaking any rules.

I'm merely highlighting how they have made this an non-competitive world from before the world started. That's the sort of thing that I agree is a good and fun thing to do on bigger servers. But not one whose worlds don't fill up a 4x4 grid. I just think it's playing the game to "cheat" their way to victory, as this server needs more talent, which is only obtained through teaching players.

Which obviously isn't going to work if instead you target all the players with potential instead of teaching them.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you want to see arrogance, feel free to read their Journal entry

And I'm not bashing them through pointing out that they are a premade, nor accusing them of breaking any rules.

I'm merely highlighting how they have made this an non-competitive world from before the world started. That's the sort of thing that I agree is a good and fun thing to do on bigger servers. But not one whose worlds don't fill up a 4x4 grid. I just think it's playing the game to "cheat" their way to victory, as this server needs more talent, which is only obtained through teaching players.

Which obviously isn't going to work if instead you target all the players with potential instead of teaching them.

The question then is whose responsibility is it to teach players? IDC is a group of players who apparently did not have the desire to join this world and spend their time teaching other players how to play better. IDC formed, as a premade, so that they could try to win the world. This is what those player decided was the "fun" thing to do. I do not tell people how to have fun. Others find it fun to grab several new players and teach them to play better.

I personally have been in both types of tribes. I spent a significant amount of time on .net teaching players to improve their skills. I play in IDC and I do not spend time now teaching. My time commitment to other areas is such that I cannot spend the time teaching too many new players what to do. (however, I did spend a lot of time with Demona teaching him so I guess my point is less valid)

The point is that if you or anyone else thinks that the world would be best served by taking new players under your wing, then I would absolutely encourage that. It would be good for the world and the server as a whole.

However, this thread was about premium ruining W6. Most of the threads slamming IDC center around premium point advantages, which is a topic that has been slammed into the ground so much that there really is little more than needs saying. People slam IDC because we have "all the mods", which is ridiculous, as we have one forum mod and one in game mod. Thats 2 out of 39 players. Now we are getting ranted on because we should be teaching players how to play and not trying to play as we see fit. No player who decides to play this game, whether they pay for it or not, has the responsibility to teach or train any other player. Some players enjoy doing so and spend time on it. Others have no desire. IDC has absolutely no responsibility or requirement to this world or server to modify their goals and actions because other players think they should. They formed a tribe, recruited who they wished, and set out for a goal of winning the world.

 

[DeletedUser]

The question then is whose responsibility is it to teach players?

I would have thought the staff would have some interest in wanting this server to grow. Maybe my view on what the staff should be aiming for is different than yours. I personally don't think the staff should be aiming to make it difficult for the server to grow, but that might just be me.

The point is that if you or anyone else thinks that the world would be best served by taking new players under your wing, then I would absolutely encourage that. It would be good for the world and the server as a whole.

I have no will to join a world where there won't be any competitiveness, as from past experience I know it takes a lot of time to effectively teach a group of players to play to a high level. When there is a high chance of a single premade joining and attempting to take that tribe down before it has the chance for the players to learn enough to hold their own effectively, it's a waste of my time. So, why should I bother? As I said on the other thread - I have been intending to in the past, but there's never been any point on .us worlds owing to this seeming to happen on most worlds here.

Now we are getting ranted on because we should be teaching players how to play and not trying to play as we see fit. No player who decides to play this game, whether they pay for it or not, has the responsibility to teach or train any other player. Some players enjoy doing so and spend time on it. Others have no desire. IDC has absolutely no responsibility or requirement to this world or server to modify their goals and actions because other players think they should. They formed a tribe, recruited who they wished, and set out for a goal of winning the world.

Moderators have responsibilities to not damage the server.

S'all I'm saying.

 

[DeletedUser]

As the Admin, I certainly do want to see the server grow. But I am also a player too. Your statement that staff is aiming to make it more difficult for the server to grow is offensive. When we play our goals are no different than any other players goals. When we are not playing, there are other priorities.

You really cant have it both ways. You dont wish to join a world and teach players, but you expect others to sacrifice their goals in a world to teach other players. That is quite contradictory. There is a thread dedicated to this very topic of teaching players. If several "good" players got together for the express purpose of teaching, I think they would be more successful than most would expect. But the goals for that type of tribe cannot be to win or even to be competitive. It has to be to teach.

 

[DeletedUser]

As the Admin, I certainly do want to see the server grow. But I am also a player too. Your statement that staff is aiming to make it more difficult for the server to grow is offensive. When we play our goals are no different than any other players goals. When we are not playing, there are other priorities.

It may be offensive, but from my perspective it is still true. Your actions cause me to have the perspective that I have.

You really cant have it both ways. You dont wish to join a world and teach players, but you expect others to sacrifice their goals in a world to teach other players. That is quite contradictory.

If you bothered actually reading my posts, you would know that I do wish to join and teach players - claiming I don't wish to do something that I have categorically stated I do, is amusing to me.

I will say again, I DO wish to join to teach players...just, not when it's a waste of my time by the "high-level" player premade that the staff make and lead on most .us worlds, killing a world before the players I am trying to teach have had enough time to be able to hold their own. There's no point in teaching when you don't have the time to teach. Which is why I stick to .net worlds - I can both play competitively and teach new players at the same time.

 

[DeletedUser]

I did read your post, and this is quite typical of you, when someone disagrees and posts to the contrary, they "didnt bother" to read your posts. Googly, you said it plainly and clearly, you wont join a world where there would be no competitiveness. I stated that the goal shouldnt be to compete, but to teach and learn. If its a waste of your time to teach players because you cannot be "competitive" at the same time, then you do not wish to teach, you wish to win. Teaching the skills required to eventually compete do not take as much time as you are making it out to be. How much time does it take to teach how to snipe? T-train? Farm? Correct builds? ect.

 

[DeletedUser]

I did read your post, and this is quite typical of you, when someone disagrees and posts to the contrary, they "didnt bother" to read your posts. Googly, you said it plainly and clearly, you wont join a world where there would be no competitiveness. I stated that the goal shouldnt be to compete, but to teach and learn.

You misunderstand me in that case as you stated a complete fabrication and put words in to my mouth - so either you didn't read my post, or you didn't understand it. Although I thought I had been very clear, apparently not. So I will clear up the mis-interpretation for you.

When I say no competitiveness, it is pointing out cases like IDC currently - where a world has no competitiveness because it is pretty much set in stone from the start. I can't teach people effectively without the time to do so, and if there is no competitiveness in the world, just one tribe steamrolling every other tribe, there won't be the time required to teach players to a high enough level to hold their own before they are targeted. So there is no point in putting the time in.

When I play to teach, I don't play to win, but to form a group of players who are able to play.

I never once said about my competitiveness on .us - just that there is no competition as the moderating team make tribes that kill each world's potential competition too quickly for teaching to be a realistic possibility from my perspective.

Hopefully that will make you understand how you had made up a lie and put it in to my mouth - I'm starting to feel a lack of competency in your thought processes, dear Admin. I also don't appreciate people claiming I have said things which are the opposite of what I actually say. If you don't fully understand someone's comment, then don't comment on it.

 

[DeletedUser]

Googly. IDC has less than 4% of the world, and is only in the very core, if you look at the map.

Instead of moaning about the problems on this server, DO SOMETHING!

And bashing the mods for playing the game is ridiculous. Jesse is just playing to win, which most players do aim for. No player says, "I'm gonna join this world so I can lose" ...

World 6 can still have competition... IDC has 4% of the world, that's 96% you can teach how to play and bring up against us.

But you won't do that. You'd rather complain and whine and create all sorts of arguments...

If you really want this server to grow, you wouldn't bash the mods, because if people start to take your side, they might leave, according to your descriptions of our server staff.

Not to mention contradicting yourself...

"I stick to .net worlds - I can both play competitively and teach new players at the same time."

"When I play to teach, I don't play to win"

You are arguing so fast, you're not paying attention to what you are saying

 

[DeletedUser]

Not to mention contradicting yourself...

"I stick to .net worlds - I can both play competitively and teach new players at the same time."

"When I play to teach, I don't play to win"

You are arguing so fast, you're not paying attention to what you are saying

That isn't a contradiction at all.

Mainly, because I stick to .net worlds because I play there first and foremost to play competitively. But that I can still teach at the same time.

My plan for playing on .us was primarily to teach. Not to win. A very, VERY old link that backs this up entirely. Find me one post that says "We're here to win" or words to that effect by me, on the teaching tribe I was planning a long time back. If you can, you have an argument. If you can't, I've proven my point.


And I wouldn't bash the moderator who is making lies up to put in to my mouth, if he wasn't doing just that. I don't like people claiming I have said something that is actually opposite to what I said, and just because he has a blue name does not mean I am not allowed to highlight that.


Edit: As for the rest of your post, the reason as to why that would be unsuccessful, a waste of my time and pointless is explained in the bolded part of my previous post.

 

[DeletedUser]

Please note that most moderators still play TW! They have as much a right to post in the capacity of a player as any other user on the forums: No mod will ever mod the worlds that they play, and thus there is no element of Bias involved. Remember that they are volunteers, and are players just like you. This means that outside their realm as a moderator, they are to be treated as you would treat any other player (see "Manners" section). This is not an excuse to give out about a mod.

A small reminder to ensure that people don't forget that on this world, the responsibilities of a mod playing it do not hold true. If you wish to criticize their actions as a moderator, then do so in private message. What they choose to do as a player on this world is irrelevant and off-topic, and they should be treated exactly as any other player.

Also, watch any insults. They too will be punished.

 

[DeletedUser]

You may have originally joined as a group of friends, but you did recruit all the relative competition there was.

Ehh, that's pretty false. We recruited and booted many players are down to 2/3 the tribal limit (which most other top tribes have reached). We also recruited based on ability to play and mesh with the rest of the team. We've booted several top 20 and even top 10 players.

If you want to see arrogance, feel free to read their Journal entry

If we ignored the truth about how dominant we are, Googly, you'd be coming back with more stuff about ignorant we are. So your insults kinda mean less than nothing at this point, considering your flaming of all the worlds our group has played on. (Which I find very interesting considering you think our group should split up to let players who don't deserve to win win. )

I would have thought the staff would have some interest in wanting this server to grow. Maybe my view on what the staff should be aiming for is different than yours. I personally don't think the staff should be aiming to make it difficult for the server to grow, but that might just be me.

What I find most interesting about all this is your complete refusal to consider other points of view. You have an uncanny ability to pick apart arguments to suit your tastes, but I don't see people backing you up. The only ones who might agree are those who are getting taken out by IDC, and even they are getting sick of your negative presence. I wonder if the two of those have anything to do with the other?

Which brings me to my final point. You are holding our players to a standard that far exceeds your behavior. The last things on my list of adjectives to describe your attitude via any means of communication are encouraging, positive, friendly, supportive, etc etc etc. Yet, those are the exact things that draw new players to games/servers and those are the makings of an environment where players can grow in their game-play. If I had such hypocritical views, I don't know if I'd put them out for display.

 

[DeletedUser]

What I find most interesting about all this is your complete refusal to consider other points of view. You have an uncanny ability to pick apart arguments to suit your tastes, but I don't see people backing you up. The only ones who might agree are those who are getting taken out by IDC, and even they are getting sick of your negative presence.

Just because I don't have people backing me up, doesn't mean I have no right to state my views. Unlike you, I don't have a horde of tribe-mates on us6 at my beck and call. Also, I do consider other points of view whether you are willing to accept it or not. However, if I don't agree with them, that's hardly something I can help. I don't consider points of view in posts that change what I say to mean the opposite of what I say, as I lose all respect for liars, whether normal member, Moderator or Administrator.

You may like vanilla. I might not, but instead like raspberry ripple. You have your own views on the topic, I have mine, they aren't always going to be the same. They aren't always going to be different.

That doesn't mean you have the right to talk for people who you don't have the opinions of. Unless you've done some secret poll with all your enemies, and got that feedback to post up now? If not, you're clutching at straws with your argument there.

Which brings me to my final point. You are holding our players to a standard that far exceeds your behavior. The last things on my list of adjectives to describe your attitude via any means of communication are encouraging, positive, friendly, supportive, etc etc etc. Yet, those are the exact things that draw new players to games/servers and those are the makings of an environment where players can grow in their game-play. If I had such hypocritical views, I don't know if I'd put them out for display.

If you must know, I have certain issues with this server than mean I've not been feeling as constructive as I have been in the past here currently - I intend to talk to the correct person, as advised by someone important to this community, at the next possible opportunity to try to resolve that issue.

Now, if you have seen the number of PMs, skype queries, or general conversations I have with people where they come to me for advise, you will know how much I go out of my way to be "encouraging", "friendly", "positive", "supportive" and all those other adjectives you wouldn't describe to me here.

Just because I don't encourage YOU to damage a server, doesn't mean I don't help others when and where I can, if I feel able to justify committing the time to do so.


You can choose to view my comments as hypocritical all you like. But answer me this? Is IDC a tribe set up for teaching purposes? No. Have I set up past tribes for teaching purposes? Yes, multiple times. The one on this server didn't fall through, but I have done so on several occasions on other server(s) in the past. So, whilst you judge me merely on comments, I merely judge you on how you go about trying to win a world and damage the server by doing so.

 

[DeletedUser]

The mentioning of the world "hypocritical" in your post made me laugh. I'll tell you why.

Reason #1:

If you must know, I have certain issues with this server than mean I've not been feeling as constructive as I have been in the past here currently - I intend to talk to the correct person, as advised by someone important to this community, at the next possible opportunity to try to resolve that issue.

So, whilst you judge me merely on comments, I merely judge you on how you go about trying to win a world and damage the server by doing so.

You seem awfully constructively critical for someone with "certain" issues with the server that are big enough to damage your attitude towards it. I make the claim only because I have "certain" problems myself which happened recently, but unlike you, I don't waver in my practiced hope and beliefs that this server will grow and continue to grow in a good way. (If you must know, I intend to do exactly as you said you would to resolve the issue if the problem persists at all. I say that to make our situations as relatable as possible.)

Reason #2:

Just because I don't have people backing me up, doesn't mean I have no right to state my views.

I don't consider points of view in posts that change what I say to mean the opposite of what I say, as I lose all respect for liars, whether normal member, Moderator or Administrator.

In the first quote, you passive aggressively claim that I said you don't have a right to state your views. That is false. What I believe would be the appropriate labeling of your statement is "changing what I say to mean something different," which I believe you have just deemed something a liar would do, whom you don't have respect for.

Something I'm getting sick of is (1) knowing that you're an intelligent person who has the ability to benefit the server and (2) watching you put-down, put-down, put-down until you're blue in the face. This:

Just because I don't encourage YOU to damage a server

is just embarrassing. It's pretty obvious that I am not damaging the server, whether intentional or not.

Despite your complete and distasteful lack of respect for me, I'll answer your question.

Is IDC a tribe set up for teaching purposes?

IDC is not set up for teaching purposes, though we have taught more than one player in the tribe. Because you associate IDC with Smash, I will take the liberty to do so as well. Smash was largely a teaching tribe on world 1. Several players who made top 5-20 on world 1 and beyond were taught by Matt and others. On world 3, Smash wasn't a teaching tribe, was #1, but Matt still taught several people. The same is true for IDC on world 6. Matt, Jesse, DD, and others do not waste natural ability. I won't give names but they have taught more than 1 player on world 6 and have seen very promising results from their efforts. I won't put down your teaching tribe, but I will say that Matt has been a very successful leader, which very much includes how willing he is to teach players the game.

Maybe this doesn't benefit .US as a whole, but it definitely benefits its future by training players to become better. I'd also say it benefits our tribe, which should be the goal of every tribe leader.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you want to see arrogance, feel free to read their Journal entry

And I'm not bashing them through pointing out that they are a premade, nor accusing them of breaking any rules.

I'm merely highlighting how they have made this an non-competitive world from before the world started. That's the sort of thing that I agree is a good and fun thing to do on bigger servers. But not one whose worlds don't fill up a 4x4 grid. I just think it's playing the game to "cheat" their way to victory, as this server needs more talent, which is only obtained through teaching players.

Which obviously isn't going to work if instead you target all the players with potential instead of teaching them.

I wasn't aiming my comment towards you or at least not for the part about them cheating. There have been many claims that IDC "cheated" because a couple of their players took advantage of the premium features that Innogames developed. I don't think you stated that so that section was targeted at those who did. Their claims are kind of stupid on that matter. I essentially agree with you when you say the world is not competitive. I don't think they have a particular responsibility to teach anyone though. Just like the rest of us, they are playing because its an enjoyable game. They shouldnt have to play in a way that they don't want to even if it would benefit the server in the long run.

I must admit, I was a bit bitter when I first signed on to this world weeks after it started because IDC was close to me and very strong, but the attacks on them have been rather poor so far and I find myself agreeing with my "enemies" in each dispute. Googly, you have presented the best case so far but most of the others have been repeated dozens of times and arent logical. The problem I have with your argument is that just because they are good they shouldn't have greater responsibilities then the average player. I do agree something needs to be done though. I've read the suggestions to fix the problem in a seperate thread and some of them seem like good ideas. Up to Innogames if anything will happen to help the noobs out.

 

[DeletedUser]

Could I point out that the current Top 5 accounts haven't used the premium features anywhere near the extent that people were complaining about before.

We told you it would even out eventually and here it is

Also before anyone tries to shoot me for not following the massive IDC flamefest going on right now, I'm attempting to not be involved in yet another one

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh, after that last page of posts, I thought this thread was about how Googly hates IDC... lmao

You say this is about the premium???

Well obviously the premium didn't ruin the world if I've made it to around 50th place without "cheating" ... lmao

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh, after that last page of posts, I thought this thread was about how Googly hates IDC... lmao

You say this is about the premium???

Well obviously the premium didn't ruin the world if I've made it to around 50th place without "cheating" ... lmao

That's because you're taking all the targets we left for you

Anyways, I think this thread is obsolete. The two people that were getting thrashed for using premium features too much now reside in 7th and 9th place instead of first and second.

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh oh, the targets YOU LEFT FOR ME... =P I see how it is... I'm sure you "left me" a 5.3K gem?

Right, I think it has been proven that the premium glitch was not ultimately a game changer.

 

[DeletedUser]

Is it just me or is there an invisible member on every forum? Right now it says two members are viewing but only my name is shown. Is it a mod or something?