Leadership For Beginners

[DeletedUser]

You may be not so dictorial as you think you are Googly. What you call 'keep the team vaguely aware of where we're going next' can be seen as giving them direction who to attack and who not to.

Giving direction can be done in either a dictatorship or a democracy; it's the way in which it is done (who is involved in the decision-making leading to giving direction to the members) that sets apart the two different style.

I'm unsure if we mean the same thing when we say dictatorship or democracy from this?

I'd say you are more democratic as you appear to prefer keeping the tribe members involved in decision-making, not necessarily in all decisions but some (such as diplomacy, who to war, merges etc).

I've never led like that; members are just made aware before they join us that they are about to become part of a tribe where they won't have any real input in what tribal-level choices the tribe makes (they get given guidelines periodically on what tribes/who to leave alone and who to focus on, but they don't have a say in diplomacy or war decisions).

The second approach is a dictatorship as the members don't get their input. The first is a democratic approach as, frequently, they do.

 

[DeletedUser3141]

Well it seems to me that
a) there is no one style better than another in themselves, just depends on who is involved
b) leadership requires a degree of masochism

But I would like to add that it is important that the leader be trustworthy. Part of what makes a tribe attractive is knowing that you won't login to find the Duke joined the enemy or that the 'plans' the council had been discussing involved selling out half of the membership. You can't expect more loyalty than you offer.

Also game skill and leadership/management skills are not the same so a complete noob may have a lot to offer if they have good diplomatic and negotiation skills for instance or are good at 'reading' the game and a knack for strategy.

 

[DeletedUser]

Also game skill and leadership/management skills are not the same so a complete noob may have a lot to offer if they have good diplomatic and negotiation skills for instance or are good at 'reading' the game and a knack for strategy.

Tribes tend to have alienated members if the leader appears to not be able to play the game well. You need to set an example in every way as a leader, and so you are best learning to play the game before learning to lead players in the game.

Other than that, great post!

 

[DeletedUser5293]

people write link where you can find distance calculator????

 

[DeletedUser]

http://us.twstats.com/us14/index.php?page=attack_planner

Change the us14 to whichever world this is about.

 

[DeletedUser]

Just ask me to lead your tribe and you will do fine and it would be the best leadership move you could make

 

[DeletedUser3007]

Leadership....

There are right ways, there are wrong ways, but sometimes the wrong way is the right way at the right time. That same way is the wrong way at another time. As confusing as it sounds, it means you must adapt to your particular scenario. You can't join a world and say im going to make a republic, or a monarchy. you are dealt a hand and then you build with what you have.

Structure....
Using the right structure for your scenario is key to being a good leader.
I usually start leading as 1, then turn into 2, 3 and ending at 4. As time goes on and bonds are built, trust is earned and rights are passed to other deserving players.
this is just my preference of course.

Spoiler

1. Dictatorship/Autocracy

A Dictatorship is any system in which a single person, the Dictator, rules over all aspects of life for the tribe and the citizens. He takes on the Legislative efforts by creating policies, then takes on the Executive by enforcing those policies, and finally takes on the Judicial by evaluating the policies and any issues at hand.

Leader-to-member Ratio: 1-x
Ideal Leaders: 1 (no margin)
Ideal Assistant Leaders: 0 (if greater, the gov’t turns into a ‘Monarchy’)
Ideal Members: 0-50; 0-50
Leader Activity: HIGH
Member Activity: LOW
Effectiveness: HIGH
Popular Risk: HIGH
Popularity: LOW, centered around small alliances

2. ‘Monarchy’ and/or Feudal Monarchy

A (by the book) Monarchy is essentially just a Dictatorship where the ruler’s power is passed to his/her (generally) eldest son or lieutenant. However, when I speak of it, I mean a system in which a King rules with assistant ruler(s). When a ‘Monarchy’ is paired with a powerful system of classes called the Feudal System, it is turned into a very organized chain of command. At the top of this chain is the King, then comes two/three rulers who each rule over two/three rulers who each rule over… (and so on down as far as one needs to go to accommodate the entire population to the proper ratio). Thus, rule assists with reducing the popular risk and also allows a much more coordinated front, and also some well-deserved rest for the King, who now has some of his duties taken care of by his underlings. Using this system, the tribe may expand to near endless levels, only checked by the limits of communication.

Leader-to-member Ratio: 1-3 to 1-7
Ideal Leaders: 1-2
Ideal Assistant Leaders: 4-14
Ideal Members: 8-500; 8-100
Leader Activity: MEDIUM
Member Activity: LOW
Effectiveness: HIGH, still one king
Popular Risk: MEDIUM
Popularity: MEDIUM, often systems based off of them are seen

3. Oligarchy

In an oligarchy, a group of people rule, just as a group of chairpersons is in charge of a company or fund. There may or may not be a head to the group, but regardless, it is the group that makes the decisions. The group itself may or may not come from a variety of the people. It generally is a single class of the people that is selected by a single person to perform certain tasks. Oligarchies are among the most stable forms, simply because they are neither hard to maintain nor are they too poor with relations with the people (although they can be).

Leader-to-member Ratio: 1-3 to 1-20
Ideal Leaders: 2-4
Ideal Assistant Leaders: 0-6
Ideal Members: 8-300; 8-100
Leader Activity: MEDIUM/HIGH
Member Activity: LOW
Effectiveness: MEDIUM/HIGH
Popular Risk: MEDIUM
Popularity: HIGH, very easy to see one

4. “Tribal Council” System

A mix between an Oligarchy and a Feudal Monarchy. There generally is a class system, but the ruling class of Oligarchs is more dominant and defined on the chain of command, the sub-classes are merely for organization and easier tactical commands and rarely go further than two sub-classes under the Tribal Council system. Upon the top ruling class, jobs are generally distributed upon two different sides- internal (head of government) or external (head of state). The rulers each take up all three parts of government (executive, legislative, judicial), just as a monarch would, and thus compliment each other. Leaders must be VERY good at communicating and working together. This is the most popular system.

Leader-to-member Ratio: 1-2 to 1-20
Ideal Leaders: 2-4
Ideal Assistant Leaders: 4-30
Ideal Members: 10-600; 10-100
Leader Activity: HIGH
Member Activity: MEDIUM
Effectiveness: HIGH
Popular Risk: MEDIUM
Popularity: VERY HIGH, almost everywhere

5. Republic (alternately, a Representative Democracy)

Republics are tricky, but not as tricky as Dictatorships or pure Democracies. The way a Republic works is simple on paper- the system is divided into two main groups, the central government and the local government. The local government is made up of many individual leaders who each have their own group to look after. They represent that group to the central government, which then has all of the representatives discuss and then vote upon plans of action. This system is tricky to master, though, and requires excellent activity and communication. In times of war or desperate need, the voting body generally elects a dictator (or two) who TEMPORARILY take on an autocratic rule of the body for a set period of time.

Leader-to-member Ratio: 1-3 to 1-8
Ideal Leaders: 1-3
Ideal Assistant Leaders: 6-20
Ideal Members: 14-100; 14-80
Leader Activity: VERY HIGH
Member Activity: MEDIUM
Effectiveness: MEDIUM
Popular Risk: LOW
Popularity: MEDIUM/LOW, not too many really know how to make one in the first place, so they generally end up horrifically failing.

6. Pure Democracy

I will start this off by saying that there are no countries in the world today that are pure Democracies. There are ones that have Democratic ideas or partially build upon the concept, but it is impossible to form a Democracy with the time it takes to communicate and analyze opinions for a modern country. Even a country of 100,000 would still take its time making a decision. Essentially how it works is that EVERY CITIZEN votes on EVERY MATTER from a new NAP to inviting new members. The leaders are merely moderators of the discussion- they don’t have any more of a say than any other citizen in any matter. Often, there is a system in place where a dictator is permitted to rule for a short period of time because of the need of a strong leader in war, as a pure Democracy will destroyed in the face of war, as the measures of command are weak.

Leader-to-member Ratio: N/A
Ideal Leaders: 1-2
Ideal Assistant Leaders: 2-30
Ideal Members: 2-350; 2-50
Leader Activity: HIGH
Member Activity: HIGH
Effectiveness: LOW
Popular Risk: VERY LOW
Popularity: VERY LOW, you are lucky to have seen one.

Assistant Leaders....
This is a very important part of leadership. do not give rights to anyone that has not earned them. do not give leadership rights to any former enemy player for joining ever (duh)
only your most loyal and oldest of friends should get any privs.

Rules....
A strong set of rules that enforces tribal participation and activity must be implemented.

-nobling
-activity
-tribe participation
-diplomacy
-standard TW rules

all should be included in your rules.

=====================================================================

but why would you listen to me, its not like ive ever lead any rank 1 tribes...
well, besides my last 3 consecutive worlds anyway.

 

[DeletedUser]

but why would you listen to me, its not like ive ever lead any rank 1 tribes...
well, besides my last 3 consecutive worlds anyway.

That is an argument that shouldn't be used as a way of making a claim to be a good/great leader. There are hundreds of tribes that achieve rank 1. Most of them tend to fall flat on their faces.

The successes I've had as a leader, only one of them took rank 1 before reaching end-game.

Not because of being poor tribes, but because of very limited recruitment, very limited diplomacy and a refusal to do merges until end-game (and even then, avoiding it unless there is no other realistic option). My point? Rank doesn't mean much, and people who think it does tend to have their ego talking more than their sense.


Now, on to some parts of your text.

Assistant Leaders....
Do not give leadership rights to any former enemy player for joining ever (duh)
only your most loyal and oldest of friends should get any privs.

I'd completely disagree. Some of my best council members have fought me on the same world. And a number of my most loyal and oldest friends never want, nor are suited, for privileges. As an example, about 10 of my 24 man tribe in W70 .net have some privileges. Of those, I've played with 5 of those accounts for just 4 weeks.

Quite often it is beneficial to have the energy a new player adds to the tribe involved in some council decisions, once they have settled in to the tribe.


Regarding this section, I'm explaining why you can't categorize a style of leadership using some of these statements.

Leader-to-member Ratio I guess you can categorize with this.
Ideal Leaders:I guess you can categorize with this.
Ideal Assistant Leaders: Depends on the tribe.
Ideal Members: Depends on the tribe.
Leader Activity: Every tribe is different in this aspect, regardless of its style.
Member Activity: Every tribe is different in this aspect, regardless of its style.
Effectiveness: Every tribe is different in this aspect, regardless of its style.
Popular Risk: Every tribe is different in this aspect, regardless of its style.
Popularity: Every tribe is different in this aspect, regardless of its style.

Most of your post is centred on those mis-conceptions, and it does undermine everything you are trying to put forward in your post.

You've made a few good points, but you really need to think more about what you are saying, stand back and look at it before just saying it.

 

[DeletedUser3007]

while you pick apart my post and say im wrong, i sit and lead the best tribe this server has seen. you say rank doesn't matter, but it shows what a person or tribe has accomplished.

you speak from your own personal experiences, and i speak from mine. for you to say 1 way is wrong only shows you are unable to understand the true ways of leadership and adapting. to write 1 page and think it covers everything would be idiotic. i simply added a few statements of what worked for me and you say im wrong? since everything is situational in this game wouldn't that make your statement completely ignorant? you sit there and say what i write are misconceptions when that particular portion you speak of is from an award winning blogger, dont you just feel so smart buddy LOL... but this is only an opinion of yours so who are you to say it is wrong. are you the author of the book, The absolute only way to lead a tribe? i didn't think so. so before you go around picking everyone's posts apart do your research and consider if their methods have, or would actually work.

so googly boy,
you've also made a few good points, but you really need to think more about what you are saying, stand back and look at it before just saying it. because you aren't the only player that has lead a successful tribe.

 

[DeletedUser]

Firstly, this is a thread to help other players. Perhaps it would be wise to drop that 'know it all' attitude, as that is not something that exemplifies anything beyond personal ego.

Secondly, you need to be more careful in reading my comments. Nowhere have I said a specific style or approach is wrong. I have merely commented on a few very specific comments, and as such there is no need to feel so insulted by my post.

I won't comment on your personal experience, as I don't know it and I have no interest in it. Nor will I comment on claims such as 'the best tribe in the server', as again - that's all subjective. It screams of ego, and that ego shines through your comment and weakens your entire argument.

You say rank doesn't matter, but it shows what a person or tribe has accomplished.

I agree, it reflects on accomplishments - but in a very simplistic form. If you only judge worth based on rank then I would say you are very naive. However, I suspect you do not believe worth is only judged by rank.

For you to say 1 way is wrong only shows you are unable to understand the true ways of leadership and adapting.

If you read what I said you will find that I never said any approach to leadership is 'wrong'. The only thing I did say is wrong is how you categorize tribe styles in a simplistic, generalizing manner.

That statement was made because every tribe is different and depends in the individual leading it and the circumstances of the tribe (amongst other things). Tribes aren't simple things. They are complex and unique.

Whilst you can categorize through some simplistic terms - as you did - there is no way of knowing the effectiveness of the tribe, the activity of the member-base or leadership, among other things. Not without being in every individual tribe. To imply that you do, suggests you know every detail about leadership that there is (which would be very arrogant).

I am not saying your styles of leadership or opinions on what styles of leaderships there are are wrong.

To assume that I have said that means you didn't understand my comment, and means you are letting your ego and pride take over rather than your understanding of my feedback to your posts.

Since everything is situational in this game wouldn't that make your statement completely ignorant?

Everything is situational. Which is what I was saying in my previous post. You have somehow missed or ignored the underlying message of you simplifying tribe styles too much, and so before getting so hot-headed in your comments I would strongly advise you to more carefully read through what I posted.

You are more than welcome to write up a leadership guide, and I hope you do so as you have some interesting points. You would be best off dropping that foul attitude and read people's posts more carefully.


I'd ask you to not continue posting on this thread in that arrogant manner as you seem to be trying to turn this in to a petty argument, based on the wording and style of writing you used (and lack of understanding of what I actually criticized). This is a thread served to help people wanting advice, and not one for somebody to try and spout their ego all over the forum.

 

[DeletedUser3007]

you misunderstand me, im not hot headed this is me normal

try to dress up what you said about my reply, it doesn't change the fact that you called the text from
the old award winning blogger a misconception lol. your opinion is yours, it doesn't mean mine is a misconception.

and your talk about my ego... only feeds it. you people think ego is bad, pride is bad. look up the definition
humble and tell me that thinking less of yourself is a good thing. so i think highly of myself, i have a right to.
you are entitled to your opinion and i am entitled to mine like i said.

so thanks for the funny read googly.
your hero,
ice cold

 

[Sweeney]

i sit and lead the best tribe this server has seen.

Would you be willing to put that statement to the test?

JUNK vs. VOID - whenever you're ready.

 

[DeletedUser3007]

lol sweeney if only we could take our clusters and drop them into another world. i would have left w31 LOL

and i heard all good the players quit there

 

[DeletedUser]

and your talk about my ego... only feeds it. you people think ego is bad, pride is bad. look up the definition
humble and tell me that thinking less of yourself is a good thing. so i think highly of myself, i have a right to.

Pride is a good thing by all accounts. The best tribes I have seen in this game all have a sense of pride about who their tribe is, how they play, their style.

Being humble doesn't mean thinking less of yourself - again, a very simplistic understanding of a more complex term.

Simplicity is never a good trait as a leader.

 

[DeletedUser]

Gentlemen, if you want to debate who is the best world leader feel free to create a thread for it, lets not derail this one.

Besides, you all know I am the best duke ever.

 

[DeletedUser3007]

oh back in the day you were my favorite duke jesse... but only because you talked back to me, and dog ignored me LOL
and i was just pulling his leg you know how i like to have fun with people. he was perfect too.

googly i just want to make clear that i didn't say your way was wrong in anyway.
its a good lil startup guide for leading. just be more courteous when someone throws in their
2 cents. no need to call other's opinions misconceptions.

thank you!

your hero,
ice cold

 

[DeletedUser]

just be more courteous when someone throws in their
2 cents. no need to call other's opinions misconceptions.

Apologies if you are unable to handle light criticism.

As this thread is here to help new players who want to lead, I don't want to get ideas stuck in their heads that are misconceptions. That will restrict their creativity and finding their own style that works for them.

Courtesy was there - again, you would have noticed a compliment at the end about your post as a whole, had you bothered reading my post instead of letting your ego and arrogance read and respond for you

 

[DeletedUser]

Googly makes my nipples hard when I read his post.


Fact still remains leadership is a lead by example thing if you cant do something dont expect your members to and you should always lead your team into battle. So your team that if you can they can and sometimes you need to make the hard choices and upset people but if you are not in it to win then dont be a leader test your luck following someone like jesseiam

 

[DeletedUser3007]

once again about misconception.. this shows how ignorant you are.

a few posts ago you said you didn't say anywhere that what i said was wrong. but then
you use the word misconception all over the place LOL.

please understand the definition of of the word.
its only a misconception if it is proven to be wrong. my methods are proven to be correct in the last 3 consecutive
worlds ive played. with that said, your statement about my opinions is the misconception. simply because you didn't
agree with it doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be read by other players.

so it was a nice try to call my way wrong, in other words. and then deny doing it, and then try to sound like the upright
noble character by calling me arrogant.

i will go for days about this idc. your opinion is yours. it may be correct for you, and that is fine. but others opinions and proven tactics are in no way a misconception when they work.

once again, burned by your hero
ice cold

 

[DeletedUser]

I am merely disputing your arguments that every specific style of leadership you mentioned is only suited to one set of very specific criteria.

That is a serious mis-conception whether you like it or not, as it is implying that specific leadership styles will only work if they meet your stated criteria (which is not the case).

Because of that serious generalization, your comment would lead a lot of potential leaders down paths that would result in disastrous outcomes as they would assume (for example, based on your post) that they have to use a specific type of leadership to manage inactivity. Which is completely wrong.

Whilst you aren't wrong in some of your post, you imply a 'do this if...' approach which ignores the possibility of any alternative option in that situation.

And by being unable to understand that issue, you are showing that you have a simpleton style attitude towards the subtleties and complexities of leading a tribe.

This in turn suggests you have relied purely on luck as a leader or have yet to face anything remotely challenging (which may be the case as this is a very small server) and as such feel the need to pound your chest about it (as you are doing with each post you make) to try and make yourself seem like the 'next big thing', as you are unable to prove your ability in a mature and effective manner.

---

You've stated your opinion, I've critiqued it. You don't seem to understand or like that, but that's how things are. You've said all you have to say on the topic, so let's leave it at that as this has got to the point of going around in circles and is beginning to derail this thread.