US - A teaching server.

[DeletedUser]

The majority of the worlds started here have settings that are friendly to the new players. (As such when a new world is announced players complain that the speed is too slow, ect) I am a fan of anyone who wants to spend the time teaching new players how to play and do well in this game. I do not think a separate world needs to be created to accomplish that though. If the goal is to learn and not to dominate, what better way to learn than to join a world and start playing it with the understanding that you will encounter players of varied skill levels, some of which will be able to defeat you.

Its up to the individual players on the world to decide what they wish to accomplish in a world. If several of you decided that you were gonna start US7 and mass recruit all new players and will teach them, that would be awesome! I bet you would even have a few players who would join your group for that specific purpose. If a "skilled" player really wanted a challenge, then take on the rookies and lead that tribe to glory. Learning how to play this game does not take years. The factors to learning and becoming decent are simple, activity and learning to use your tools (ie scripts, t-train, ect).

I hope a few good players decide to take up this cause and show the rest of the server how its done. I would be most impressed and appreciative! I might even be willing to help in an advisory capacity.

 

[DeletedUser]

Learning how to play this game does not take years. The factors to learning and becoming decent are simple, activity and learning to use your tools (ie scripts, t-train, ect).

With respect, I totally disagree.

Unless someone has prior experience, or is a very fast learner, it can take a long time for them to really become a very strong player (well, what I would define to be a strong player, at least). Mainly because experience is a necessity - decision-making isn't something you just learn from reading a guide, as it is different in every situation. Which is something I have tried to make clear in my defensive guides that I wrote for this very server.

It may not necessarily take "years", but it does take a long time for the majority of players with potential to really become very strong and capable players.

Factors to learning and becoming decent are dependent on the time you are able to commit to trying to learn, being able to comprehend what you are taught, learning from experiences, learning from a mentor, activity, scripts, but most importantly decision-making.

Decision-making unfortunately is something that very few people can effectively teach from what I've seen. And one which requires time and experience, as well as a great deal of patience. And that is most certainly not simple.

 

[DeletedUser]

With respect, I totally disagree.

Unless someone has prior experience, or is a very fast learner, it can take a long time for them to really become a very strong player (well, what I would define to be a strong player, at least). Mainly because experience is a necessity - decision-making isn't something you just learn from reading a guide, as it is different in every situation. Which is something I have tried to make clear in my defensive guides that I wrote for this very server.

It may not necessarily take "years", but it does take a long time for the majority of players with potential to really become very strong and capable players.

Factors to learning and becoming decent are dependent on the time you are able to commit to trying to learn, being able to comprehend what you are taught, learning from experiences, learning from a mentor, activity, scripts, but most importantly decision-making.

Decision-making unfortunately is something that very few people can effectively teach from what I've seen. And one which requires time and experience, as well as a great deal of patience. And that is most certainly not simple.

With all due respect, the goal shouldn't be to create an army of elite level players. Its to create a tribe where players can learn what they need to so that they can be competitive. In my first world, on .net, I learned from playing, no guides, no teachers, and at the 3 year mark I was a top 20 player and duke of the #1 tribe in the world. If I had someone to show my the ropes, and was playing a world where the skill level of the overall population was lower, the accomplishments would have been faster. Perhaps I am unique, but I doubt it. I do not think I am any better than any other person who decides to play the game. The skills required to be competitive on the .us server can be learned in a relatively short period of time. I look at the players on US1 and I know several who are first time players. They learned quickly and have become quality players.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd have to agree with Googly, regarding decision making. I can speak from my own experience with taking on newer players on account, despite them knowing all the technicalities and techniques to use, they often struggle with the decision making, which can only be patched with experienced. Same as in life you act quicker and more efficiently if you have experience in similar situations. For example, you can rarely compare movement of experienced defender, professional footballer (european), with someone who has just come out of academy, they will make mistakes when under pressure.


Regarding the learning overall. Maybe it's just me, but I'm under impression that people have become a lot lazier when it comes down to learning and taking initiative and they quickly surrender to failure, maybe it's just how the modern game industry has teached them, but I think that 4-5 years ago it was different.

 

[DeletedUser]

I sense an undercurrent of IDC bashing in this thread...

Contrary to what you guys may believe, IDC does teach players how to play. They top two players a while ago that bought their way have learned a lot from Matt and the others, I believe...

I know in previous Smash tribes, Matt, Orel, and others took on a willingness to help others learn to play better - I learned a lot from Smash World 1.

So there's my defense of my tribe. We may be seen as an elitist group, but are far from it in most members.

To the whole idea of establishing this as a learning server, ... Not really sure how plausible that is. All that would be doing is stealing players from other servers, essentially. The problem seems to be that for its large population, especially those with regular computer access, the U.S. part of the tribal wars community as a whole seems to be way too small.

If you go to other servers and say, "Come to .US, we'll teach you to play!" How many people will follow that call? Many new players don't go on the forums, so that means mass mailing everybody on other servers??? I would be all for helping to teach some new guys the basics, but I'm not sure how you would GET them here.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you go to other servers and say, "Come to .US, we'll teach you to play!" How many people will follow that call? Many new players don't go on the forums, so that means mass mailing everybody on other servers??? I would be all for helping to teach some new guys the basics, but I'm not sure how you would GET them here.

There are thousands of new players on this server already. You don't need to "get" new players anywhere.

And there is no IDC bashing in this thread. Merely highlighting how IDC and its Smash predecessors have made it impossible to teach thus far on this server owing to ensuring there is not enough time TO teach by removing the competitiveness from this server.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yep, because Smash and IDC have won every world. You've got it. You solved the master plan. Even though IDC is only on W6... and Smash never made it past the first few months of a world... lmao

 

[DeletedUser]

To the whole idea of establishing this as a learning server, ... Not really sure how plausible that is. All that would be doing is stealing players from other servers, essentially. The problem seems to be that for its large population, especially those with regular computer access, the U.S. part of the tribal wars community as a whole seems to be way too small.

If you go to other servers and say, "Come to .US, we'll teach you to play!" How many people will follow that call? Many new players don't go on the forums, so that means mass mailing everybody on other servers??? I would be all for helping to teach some new guys the basics, but I'm not sure how you would GET them here.

Stealing players from other servers? I mean if .net offers something more interesting and of higher value to you individually, does .net then steals as well?

At the moment we have enough people right here with whom to work with, but I'm confident as the word would spread more people would show, they always do. Where do they come from and how they get to know about this place? People talk.

Besides, my primary statement was that .us server isn't something that you look at and visit to play for kicks and competition and most likely will never be. Then why not turn into something more specific something that is the "go to" place for new players and the ones that want to get better.

Yep, because Smash and IDC have won every world. You've got it. You solved the master plan. Even though IDC is only on W6... and Smash never made it past the first few months of a world... lmao

please, don't derail this thread with your defense of your former/current tribes, that is not what this is about.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yep, because Smash and IDC have won every world. You've got it. You solved the master plan. Even though IDC is only on W6... and Smash never made it past the first few months of a world... lmao

A number of players who I saw having potential to learn with a couple of basic skills already in hand (from lurking inactively ingame on a couple of Smash worlds) I saw quit or be nobled out within the first 6 weeks. If the players don't have the time to learn to play/dislike one tribe running a world from day 1 and quit over it, it doesn't matter who wins the world - the tribes in question have already killed the chances of teaching said individuals.

Nice point you made there. Really well thought out.

 

[DeletedUser3168]

I sense an undercurrent of IDC bashing in this thread...

Contrary to what you guys may believe, IDC does teach players how to play. They top two players a while ago that bought their way have learned a lot from Matt and the others, I believe...

I know in previous Smash tribes, Matt, Orel, and others took on a willingness to help others learn to play better - I learned a lot from Smash World 1.

So there's my defense of my tribe. We may be seen as an elitist group, but are far from it in most members.

To the whole idea of establishing this as a learning server, ... Not really sure how plausible that is. All that would be doing is stealing players from other servers, essentially. The problem seems to be that for its large population, especially those with regular computer access, the U.S. part of the tribal wars community as a whole seems to be way too small.

If you go to other servers and say, "Come to .US, we'll teach you to play!" How many people will follow that call? Many new players don't go on the forums, so that means mass mailing everybody on other servers??? I would be all for helping to teach some new guys the basics, but I'm not sure how you would GET them here.

No need to be defensive

I didnt see it heading towards bashing any tribe but making a discussion of all around issues. Besides i dont think the idea was to make the entire .us server a teaching server but creating methods to encourage teaching in the server.

With the idea that if new players come to .us they will have a chance to learn develop friends and hopefully stick around. Instead of just getting spanked at every turn.

It wouldnt be that hard for the tutorial to direct new players to a forum section (maybe a subsection to the guides section) devoted to teaching whether that be with guides, vets to give advice, and maybe even a spot to join a IM teaching room for more in depth help like skype (not sure what .us uses the most for IM on .net its skype).

Might also be a way to encourage forum use, but im just brain storming, im sure theres endless possibilities for encouraging competitive play, forum use, and server population.

 

[DeletedUser]

I didnt see it heading towards bashing any tribe but making a discussion of all around issues. Besides i dont think the idea was to make the entire .us server a teaching server but creating methods to encourage teaching in the server.

With the idea that if new players come to .us they will have a chance to learn develop friends and hopefully stick around. Instead of just getting spanked at every turn.

That, thank you, well worded. I'm just slightly tired after writing a lot of uni stuff, thus' I must be slightly slow with words today ^^

It wouldnt be that hard for the tutorial to direct new players to a forum section (maybe a subsection to the guides section) devoted to teaching whether that be with guides, vets to give advice, and maybe even a spot to join a IM teaching room for more in depth help like skype (not sure what .us uses the most for IM on .net its skype).

Might also be a way to encourage forum use, but im just brain storming, im sure theres endless possibilities for encouraging competitive play, forum use, and server population.

Could direct new players to forum section ,with available teaching tribes to join, with the help of IGM which players receive upon joining the world. IMO, would be worth renaming forum section "Guides, pointers, strategy" to something slightly more straightforward , for example, "Teaching.". There would be the same guide section, teaching tribe section, question section - where new players can ask a question regarding the game and more experienced players answer, thus' making sort of a FAQ database.


P.s. Edited my first post and added "Ideas" section. So if anyone has a worthy suggestion go for it.

 

[DeletedUser]

Longhorn in us4 is trying to teach people atm , he made tribe and all are welcome to go there and learn(allthought that might been sarcasm coming from him). Or as you guys said create skype chat , and start teaching theory through there , when there is group of people who are willing to learn start joining worlds

 

[DeletedUser]

Longhorn in us4 is trying to teach people atm , he made tribe and all are welcome to go there and learn(allthought that might been sarcasm coming from him). Or as you guys said create skype chat , and start teaching theory through there , when there is group of people who are willing to learn start joining worlds

Yea, I noticed his topic skimming through forums. I think it's great that he's doing this. Later when I have time I'll contact him regarding his progress. ^^

 

[DeletedUser]

I'll be moving this thread to the suggestions forum where it belongs, as it is not only relevant to W6 and has gotten the input of most W6 posters already.

Furthermore, I would like to make a single comment; whilst in Smash, many players were recruited and taught, both on W1 and W3, by The SmashNasty. I will not make any claims to having taught many players; I was around for advice on handling situations and doing diplomacy, as well as some playing, but I never played an integral part in the teaching, sad to say. I simply never had the time, and I'm not a very good teacher.

Well, two comments; I like some of the ideas in here, and would like to see them hashed out further.

Carry on .

 

[DeletedUser]

Yeah, in the end I gathered myself that this should be the best place for this topic, thanks for moving.
In perfect world it would be great if multiple teaching tribes joined the worlds, I never thought of them as one big teaching tribe for one world, but time will show if there will be willing people to teach and to develop some sort of a system. I'm having my last go at the university and will free up only in a months time myself. So I think it would be great if people would just come out here and brainstorm a bit, especially you Orel, I know that you are a capable guy, so let's hear those ideas ^^

 

[DeletedUser2389]

Longhorn in us4 is trying to teach people atm , he made tribe and all are welcome to go there and learn(allthought that might been sarcasm coming from him).

He's attempting to teach players, though he's a little inactive for that kind of role.

 

[Nauzhror]

Just chiming in on whether it takes years to become decent at TW or not.

The answer is a bit two-sided.

1.) If after having played for six months you aren't competent then chances are that you never will be. The basics are fairly easy to learn and grasp and if you fail to do so in a relatively short period of time then odds are you simply aren't the type of player that is ever likely to play at a competitive level.

2.) On the other extreme it does take years to become truly excellent. The way the game is played evolves over time. To remain great rather than merely decent you must evolve with the game. I was widely considered a top-tier player three years ago, yet today am a much better player than I was three years ago and in another six months I will undoubtedly be better than I am now. The number one requirement to succeeding is being open-minded, the moment you convince yourself that you've learned everything there is to know and can't get any better than you currently are you have damned yourself to mediocrity because you'll be right -because once you think there's nothing left for you to improve upon there really isn't.

On a related note, I don't think a world or server which lacks competition is a good server or world to teach on. I learned to play on one of .net's most competitive worlds. Sink or swim works wonders and isn't something that is provided by worlds that lack competition.

 

[DeletedUser]

Merely highlighting how IDC and its Smash predecessors have made it impossible to teach thus far on this server owing to ensuring there is not enough time TO teach by removing the competitiveness from this server.

That's completely false. Smash started on world 1, which was the first world I've ever played. I saw Matt's recruitment post there saying "if you are new to Tribal Wars, mail me and I'll teach you how to play." I think he was pretty successful, teaching myself, BaneSmasher (who was dominating w1), and many others on world 1. World 3 came and we joined and he taught more but did not make Smash the "teaching tribe" that it had mostly been on world 1. IDC may be a different story but it's not on the other side of the spectrum. I'd say there isn't much competition now, but like any half-decent TW player knows, worlds change constantly. For god's sake we're less than 2 months into the server!

On a related note, I don't think a world or server which lacks competition is a good server or world to teach on. I learned to play on one of .net's most competitive worlds. Sink or swim works wonders and isn't something that is provided by worlds that lack competition.

Completely agreed. Getting bashed on, no matter the outcome, teaches immense lessons of quantity and quality (as long as perseverance is part of the equation).

@suggestion

I really don't like how realistic the suggestion is, but a sort of "break-off" of this would be beneficial. Maybe a single world (similar to Speed or HP, but labeled appropriately), where elected "teachers" are the only ones who can lead a tribe initially and all their players are relatively new or terrible at TW. The best teacher/student combos would most likely win. Obv some loopholes exist, like who the teachers and students can be, bypassing the "relatively new or terrible" rule, etc etc. But it would be a more realistic goal than an entire "teaching server."

 

[DeletedUser]

Erm this is cool and all but I don't think it being a dedicated teaching server would do much. Most players that I teach, I am just reteaching, because whoever taught them in the first place had no idea what they were talking about and never had any even decent success on any world. There is no set of standards that separates a bad player from a good player so for anyone to say who is capable of teaching and has the right to is pretty illogical.

Also, as anyone that was primarily a startup player knows, the new quest feature changes the whole scope of the startup phase, maybe not the overall idea of it, but the timing, calculations, etc involved have been dramatically changed due to the large # of free resources given for following specific build paths. It will be quite some time before there is anywhere near an ideal way of going about startup now, so the teaching related to that should be more reference rather than repetitive (same as it has always been of course, but should be more personal to each player), so I think doing a dedicated server or even tribe is the wrong way to teach new players, or any players in general. It should be a 1 on 1 type of thing.

Also, the measure of success for anyone is all relative. Some players think skill is determined by who can win a world, while others it is personal ranks, and with others, ability to perform in combat situations, so I think the best teaching experience anyone can have is to get a mentor that knows their stuff, and just dedicate yourself somewhat to playing.

Smooth seas don't make for skillful sailors

 

[DeletedUser]

A number of players who I saw having potential to learn with a couple of basic skills already in hand (from lurking inactively ingame on a couple of Smash worlds) I saw quit or be nobled out within the first 6 weeks. If the players don't have the time to learn to play/dislike one tribe running a world from day 1 and quit over it, it doesn't matter who wins the world - the tribes in question have already killed the chances of teaching said individuals.

Nice point you made there. Really well thought out.

Ok, the first thing you should learn about tribal wars is not to join the core unless looking for heavy competition. The best place for beginners is to join a few days or weeks late along the rim.

Don't get me wrong, I think this THEORETICALLY is a cool idea to build a community and help make the game more competitive, but I don't think the PRACTICALITY will work out as intended. It's kind of like how communism is theoretically an ideal government, but in the real world can never work.