The tribe Shackled Souls has declared war on tribe Raven!

[DeletedUser]

My tribemates e2ekiel, april and Todsmith, as well as our allies and friends who've offered comments have done a fine job of highlighting all the points. There isn't much more to add here, but a few simple facts may suffice.

RavenBlack and Acrobat both know that at several different times over the last 6 months we offered them a partnership. But the choice was made repeatedly to stay out of conflict and be at peace. Myself and several in my tribe made it VERY clear that a decision would have to be made about what the future of their tribe would be. And that all of their members were counting on THEM as leaders to do what would be necessary to help them survive.

Either of you can have any philosophy you want about a "fun" way to play Tribal Wars, but to take the leadership role of 90 players and deceive them into thinking that you would help them, and protect their interests, is hard to understand. All of that time those players could have learned what fun it is to battle other players over territory. To share a forum with another tribe for a common purpose. But they weren't given that chance because the decision was made to be simply watch others fight, conquer barbs, and sit on the sidelines. And just as we have said since January, the fight would eventually arrive on your doorstep, and whan that day comes who will you call to for help? There will be no one, because you have not built a partnership through teamwork and cooperation.

Yes, of course your support during a particularly challenging time against *SD* was appreciated. Why do you think for all this time we've allowed our tribes villages to exist on each others doorstep? There was plenty of time to build on that initial gesture and friendship, but all we've ever heard from you is, "No, we will not fight them". (Whoever 'they' might be at any given time).

And just so the record is straight about what the spark in this conflict was - One of our smaller players (49 villages) decided to take out one of your small players in his territory (6 villages). We did not have an NAP in effect, as it had been discarded weeks prior. So, he attacked and conquered, which is what tribes trying to win the game do.

Instead of looking at yourselves and thinking, "Maybe we need to change our approach and do what it takes to be friends with these guys", you simply sent 1500 attacks at this player from lots of your tribemates. Did you think we would allow this? What could you possibly have believed would be the result?

Each player and each tribe eventually live out the consequences of their individual and collective choices. It is one of the remarkable aspects of this game. There is no getting around it. Your tribe for as long as I can remember has chosen to avoid conflict and hug other players. Our tribe since the change in leadership back in January has had one goal and one goal only - to fight. We could see back then that there was only one other tribe that was like us in our area, and that was Ego. So, we chose our true partner and away we went.

Considering the above and the the title of the thread, how is it even possible that it wouldn't have come to this.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well put, Calibob.

 

[DeletedUser]

*applause*
Well said.
And one more point, if you think WE play dirty, at least *I* don't mail whoever attacks me and if they lose troops against a BONFIRE and 3 thousand catapults calling them a noob and saying they weren't even close, and when they don't send another attack for 24 hours mail them AGAIN saying, "Oh I thought you would be a worthy opponent but you're not even an opponent at all!"
Seriously? Why should I waste my time? Not to mention it was 4 thousand point village... I mean, really? :S
And I agree with Calibob and everyone else, though you've done great support and such and I really appreciate it, it could also be that you supported our enemies. And you never helped attack or wanted to be on the winning side either. So... you can't really defend yourselves saying we're dishonorable.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry I didn't respond before, I was busy with the 140 attacks coming at my villages.

Myself and several in my tribe made it VERY clear that a decision would have to be made about what the future of their tribe would be. And that all of their members were counting on THEM as leaders to do what would be necessary to help them survive.

What you were trying was forcing us to choose sides.
And as we made it very clear, we do not want to choose sides, we wanted to play in peace as long as we could and see how this would end.
As everyone knows, we have several NAP's with tribes, and if we choose, we would have to break those NAP's, something we not wanted to do. You see, we promised a number of tribes not to go on a war against them, and to us, our word is our honor.

Either of you can have any philosophy you want about a "fun" way to play Tribal Wars, but to take the leadership role of 90 players and deceive them into thinking that you would help them, and protect their interests, is hard to understand. All of that time those players could have learned what fun it is to battle other players over territory. To share a forum with another tribe for a common purpose. But they weren't given that chance because the decision was made to be simply watch others fight, conquer barbs, and sit on the sidelines. And just as we have said since January, the fight would eventually arrive on your doorstep, and whan that day comes who will you call to for help? There will be no one, because you have not built a partnership through teamwork and cooperation.

Everyone in our tribe knows about our policy, and agrees the way we (as a tribe) handle things. We are a tight tribe, just look at the cooperation against Fungus.
Meanwhile we helped a LOT of new players into the game. We learned them how to defend AND attack, using our experience as guidelines. Nevertheless, we (Raven) decided to play TW a different way. See it as an experiment if you want.

Now you can think about our policy whatever you want, I don't care, but it's our policy, just as you have yours.

Yes, of course your support during a particularly challenging time against *SD* was appreciated.

You're welcome, I still not regret supporting your villages and keeping them into your tribe, although it's a bit sour that same player is attacking us right now.

And just so the record is straight about what the spark in this conflict was - One of our smaller players (49 villages) decided to take out one of your small players in his territory (6 villages). We did not have an NAP in effect, as it had been discarded weeks prior. So, he attacked and conquered, which is what tribes trying to win the game do.

Instead of looking at yourselves and thinking, "Maybe we need to change our approach and do what it takes to be friends with these guys", you simply sent 1500 attacks at this player from lots of your tribemates. Did you think we would allow this? What could you possibly have believed would be the result?

1500 attacks, wow, not bad for a tribe that cannot work together don't you think?

It's very simple, Fungus idea was to simply take down one of our players and send a message that it was no act of war.
We had a long discussion if we would see it as an act of war, and we didn't. But hey, we cannot sit down and watch our player being conquered, so we had to do something back. Just that one particular player.

I sent you a message remember? Don't think so, because you ignored it:

Hi Calibob,

As you know, one of your player (Fungus) has wiped out one of our players, Hell The Killi.

To one of our players, Fungus wrote:
"My nobling of Helli The Killi is not to be considered an attack on Raven. He was a slow growing player sitting a little too close for comfort. It is a miniscule loss for your tribe, please understand."

We now have an operation against Fungus, a retaliation for what he did to Helli The Killi.

I want to address you the same way Fungus did to us, and I quote: "our nobling of Fungus Amongus is not to be considered an attack on S.S."

Regards,
Acrobat

So, I ask you: Did you think we would allow this? What could you possibly have believed would be the result?

So let me get this right: one of your players wipes out on of our players. he thinks that means nothing to us. But when we do exactly the same, it is to be considered an act of war?

So why is one of your smaller players allowed to conquer some villages of us, and are you angry because we retaliate?
Note: the retaliation was ONLY against Fungus, not against ANY other player of S.S.

Each player and each tribe eventually live out the consequences of their individual and collective choices. It is one of the remarkable aspects of this game. There is no getting around it. Your tribe for as long as I can remember has chosen to avoid conflict and hug other players.

100% true, and we're proud on that one!
And yes, we live the consequences of our policy, we all know (like I said before) we won't win this game, not even close. We WILL loose. We have no problem with that.

And no, we are not whining because we are under attack.
We simply want the world to know how S.S promises things, on a personal and tribe level, and later just as easily breaks these agreements. Simple as that.
Some of your tribemembers just can't be trust!

Note: I must also say, some of your tribemembers CAN be trust and they haven't broken any of the agreements we make. I highly appreciate and respect those players. Won't be easy for them because pressure must be high inside your tribe.

Our tribe since the change in leadership back in January has had one goal and one goal only - to fight. We could see back then that there was only one other tribe that was like us in our area, and that was Ego. So, we chose our true partner and away we went.

Calibob, we always had a good understanding on W1. We PM'ed many times and you know I have taken your offers to join very seriously. As you know I decided to stay in Raven. I also respect the policies of your tribe, it's rather sad you don't respect ours.....

 

[DeletedUser]

Only thing in your post worth responding to:

You're trying to make your point in the Tribal Wars forum when you say you have no acknowledgement for the accepted standards of good game-play?

Playing TW for over 6 years now, I have a pretty good idea what these so-called "accepted standards" are.

But they are not "holy" standards, they're guidelines, built by the experience of 10000's of players before you. And I'm not saying these guidelines are wrong.

To be honest: I don't give sh*t about these standards, I want to try different things, different strategies, and different ways to get as far as I can in this game. By NOT sticking to the "accepted standards".

I new even before I started on W1, I was not going to conquer, and that wasn't my goal. So, maybe, just maybe I hit the "delete account" button if I get bored with all these insinuations and attacks.

And especially for you my dear friend e2kiel: also one of the "accepted standards" is you respect other people's visions and ideas (even if they're not yours), and not calling them a "whore".....
(which doesn't upset me, but it says it all about what kind of "friendly" and "respectful" person you are)

 

[DeletedUser]

The whole reason I even posted in the first place was to show where your points where wrong, not to make my own. That way, you wouldn't have anything to respond to in the first place

 

[DeletedUser]

Hello World.

Raven,
I have read this thread all the way through. I have peeled my eyes over the constant claims of peace and honor you display in the game. I have strained my pupils upon the replies made by your members, speaking of the honesty of your tribe, and the strategies of your tribe mates.

You see Raven, there are many problems I have with you.

Firstly, lets have a look onto the Tribal Wars homepage. Most active players visit it every day, but I see that you do not read it?

Tribal Wars is a browser-based game set in the Middle Ages. Every player controls a small village, striving for power and glory.

This snippet of information here, that is presented to every new, current and past player, details that players are 'striving for power and glory',

Furthermore,

However, your village is not the only one that is growing. All around you other villages have the same goal: to become the largest empire. You'll need to use the troops you recruit to outgrow your enemies, by looting and pillaging their villages.

This paragraph was taken from the Tribal Wars Help Page.

You see Raven, the awesome guys/girls who created, or work for Tribal Wars are the exact people who design the game, therefore, they, in basic terms, tell the player how to play. These men and woman have told us that the way to win this game is by outgrowing the other players, by

'Looting and Pillaging their villages',

In other words...

'Stealing and forcibly taking resources from other players'

In other words...

'Attacking other players'.

Somehow, your cannot get your head around this concept. This is, most likely why, you admit you will not win the world.

Something one of you also points out, is the common phrase 'This is Tribal Wars, not ...'.

Overused?, maybe, Correct? Certainly. Just because in your warped, confused brain, you think your tactics of not attacking anybody should earn you respect, as you are 'honorable', doesn't mean you are right. Maybe, if you thought of a tactic to play the game that doesn't completely go against the whole idea and purpose of it, you could actually have an argument on that basis. -Yeah, your 'Idea' of how to play is idiotic, to say the least.

But, lets go back to the main point of this thread, your anger over the declaration by S.S on you.

Man Up.

Ok, so you supported them, they said thank you. But really? You thought that if you could sit on the fence for the whole game you could just see how far you would get. What were you expecting? For every player bigger than you; that have got to that position because they took out competition, unlike you; to just say, 'Oh, Raven, I like them a lot because all they do is remain neutral with everybody', and when hostility is shown between two major tribes, you decide it would be best to just watch as you believe that attacking is wrong in a game that has the word 'WAR' in it?

Your whole argument against S.S is stupid, and has no meaning. Your posts seem to often counter post made by you ('Peace', 'Destruction').

Ego? and S.S are bigger than you, who cares if you are 4th in the world, and you haven't attacked a player, don't complain when others play the game, like its supposed to be. Don't whine, when you claim that you only remain neutral so you could see how far you would get. If this was true, you would have your answer.

You would get as far until you 'tactic' is seen by others, and you realize that your tactic wont work now, or ever.

Good luck to you in future worlds though.

 

[DeletedUser]

Although it seems pointless,

Can I hear RavenBlack say a few words? Acrobat tends to be little spunky in his arguments, and RavenBlack's words flow more nicely Any opinions Mr. Duke of Raven?

 

[DeletedUser]

For the Raven folks: Everyone respects your right to HAVE an opinion. That is not the same thing as saying everyone should respect the opinion itself.

That's something that folks get confused about rather often. Telling someone they are wrong is NOT the same thing as telling them they have no right to express themselves.

I think it's pretty clear we (Ego404 and S.S at the very least) think your strategy is 'wrong' inasmuch as it is a doomed strategy from day 1. You can never win a world domination game by refusing to dominate. It's different, to be sure; it may have even been fun, to a point. I have never, however, been able to figure out how having everything you have built taken away from you is fun - and that's where I see even that being taken away from you in the end.

On the point of making agreements: I have yet to see any evidence that S.S agreed to a NAP...forever. Unless that is specifically stated I do not think it is reasonable to make the assumption that such a condition exists. Lest you think that no one EVER makes such a commitment, at this point in time we ourselves (Ego404) have such a commitment with S.S; provided S.S does not inexplicably betray us it is our expressed intent to remain allies with them up to the close of this world, and make arrangements such that they win the world WITH us.

Therefore, if you entered into a NAP with them - and 'absolute permanence' was not an agreed upon condition - then it is perfectly reasonable and honorable for them to have communicated to you the ending of that agreement at such time as they saw fit, and subsequently commence whatever level of interaction with you that they found to be in their best interest.

Dishonor flows only from deception. Were you deceived? Were you attacked under the cover of some treaty? Mind you, when I say 'deceived' I'm not looking for your internal definition of a NAP, nor am I looking for a definition of YOUR goals; remember, without communication assumptions are meaningless. What I'm looking for is where there was a mutually agreed upon commitment that S.S broke.

Without that, I think the entire argument about S.S's 'lack of honor' is pretty much baseless.

 

[DeletedUser2368]

Hey Acrobat and RavenBlack, have fun losing. :smack:



That's all I need to say.

 

[DeletedUser]

dude seriously you guys think you are a legit tribe..... you are losing villages to *SD*. that puts your skill level on par with a barb village because that is all that SD has ever been able to take. seriously do us all a favor and just delete.

~Jbird152

 

[DeletedUser]

In closing I will simply state that: By attacking Raven, S.S will only bring destruction to themselves.

Spoiler: Stats

Side 1:
Tribes: S.S
Side 2:
Tribes: Raven

Timeframe: 29/09/2011 00:00:00 to 12/10/2011 14:42:51

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 94
Side 2: 5
Difference: 89

Points value of total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 578,625
Side 2: 46,743
Difference: 531,882

If that's destruction, can you destroy Ego404 too please ?

 

[DeletedUser]

LOL

That's humiliating...

RavenBlack, aside from the fact that your members' ability to defend themselves is limited, have you looked on the members list to see how many red and yellow dots you got? So many inactives, I almost feel noobish to attack them

 

[DeletedUser]

you are losing villages to *SD*.

Check your info please.
Only one player is loosing villages because of a personal conflict that started before that player joined Raven.

So, don't worry, we're fine with *SD*......
-------------------

If that's destruction, can you destroy Ego404 too please ?

Sure, what's your ingame name?
-------------------

RavenBlack, aside from the fact that your members' ability to defend themselves is limited, have you looked on the members list to see how many red and yellow dots you got? So many inactives,

Now that's interesting, there is only one person in our tribe who can see the activity of our members. So, why do you think your information is right?

I almost feel noobish to attack them

Don't only feel, you are.

 

[DeletedUser]

it doesn't matter how many people are losing villages to *SD* 1 is too many..... Losing villages to SD is like a losing an eating contest to an Olsen twin, it just shouldn't ever happen.

Check your info please.
Only one player is loosing villages because of a personal conflict that started before that player joined Raven.

So, don't worry, we're fine with *SD*......

what does this even mean? you are allies with sd? thats an epic fail .... you took the olsen twin and made her your partner in an eating contest, lol.

Now that's interesting, there is only one person in our tribe who can see the activity of our members. So, why do you think your information is right?

twstats.com shows oda/odd/conquers/and points gained on a daily basis. If a player in your tribe didn't gain anything in any of those categories it is a very reasonsable assumption that the player is not active. you do know about twstats.com, right?

Don't only feel, you are.

based on you questioning his ability to see the activity of your tribe and your alliance with one of the olsen twins signs are pointing to you being the noob..... just sayin.

~Jbird152

 

[DeletedUser]

Check your info please.
Only one player is loosing villages because of a personal conflict that started before that player joined Raven.

So, don't worry, we're fine with *SD*......
-------------------

We're not worried about you being "fine" with *SD* . It's just rather funny that you're even recruiting *SD* refugees who can't defend themselves. Poor choice in recruitment, I'd say .

Sure, what's your ingame name?
-------------------

My in-game name would be The SmashNasty. Feel free to look me up. My contributions in the wars are meh, but the tribe lets me live because I'm funny at least .

Now that's interesting, there is only one person in our tribe who can see the activity of our members. So, why do you think your information is right?

Don't only feel, you are.

This is why we think our information is right. All those 0s, negatives, etc. imply that even if not all of them are inactive, a good majority probably are . As for e2ekiel being nooby/noobish, I beg to differ:

Acrobat *092* (272|760) K72 9,052 Acrobat [Raven] e2ekiel [S.S] 2011-10-08 13:53:47

That seems like two awfully familiar names, right? How strange .

 

[DeletedUser]

Even though Smash and Jbird did a fine job of showing you otherwise, you want to show me how I'm a noob? Examples perhaps?

If you can show me actual proof, I'll be content

 

[DeletedUser]

Acrobat *092* (272|760) K72 9,052 Acrobat [Raven] e2ekiel [S.S] 2011-10-08 13:53:47

That seems like two awfully familiar names, right? How strange .

ROFLOL
Any idea how many nobles I got? Well I think about 250, some attacks even with only 4 nobles (no further support), or 1 noble only, without support.

And well, well, very well done, got over 4000 attacks by S.S in total, with around 250 nobleman, and they only got 7 villages, now that's really impressive! <NOT>

 

[DeletedUser]

No one was asking how nooby you were. I don't get your point. Prove to us that e2ekiel is a noob, or that anything else we've said is wrong. We're waiting...

 

[DeletedUser188]

ROFLOL
Any idea how many nobles I got? Well I think about 250, some attacks even with only 4 nobles (no further support), or 1 noble only, without support.

And well, well, very well done, got over 4000 attacks by S.S in total, with around 250 nobleman, and they only got 7 villages, now that's really impressive! <NOT>

i had 4k incs from AD and in the end i had 10 more villages than i had before :*