What constitutes a guide for the advanced?

[DeletedUser]

I have a small project that I have set up with a few people that is currently residing in the concept stage. I'm predicting that it will take anywhere from 6 to 9 months to complete the project, as there is a lot of work to do, plus I have to factor in my own university work. We have created mind maps on 3 sections so far, and it is for the last section I would love you guys to help out on.

We have guides, tips and tricks for beginners and moderate level players (moderate being a player at a level where they know how to snipe, backtime, send sub sec trains etc). But are there guides out there for advanced players? What is it that separates a good player from a great player? What tips and tricks are used by these top players that get them where they are?

I would love to hear you thoughts and ideas on this. Please keep it sensible, I don't want this thread locked because people decided to argue over something petty. I welcome debate though, as debate sparks ideas and causes thought

Anything that gets included in this project will be fully credited. Sorry I can't say more on it at this time, but I don't want to release it until it is fully ready

have fun and discuss!

Phil​

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm really stepping out here on this one, so I don't know how intelligent of an answer this may or may not be

At a certain point, a good player has learned all the facts of TW: how to snipe, backtime, farm effectively, etc etc. They know what to do.

I think the difference between a good player and a great player is that a great player knows how to apply this knowledge. Knowing what to do at any given situation (ie: is it better to stack this village, or try to snipe the incoming noble train, or prenoble?) is really what most people don't do, probably myself included.

Application of techniques is the essential difference.

However, I think at a certain point, difference in growth, or whatever it may be, activity becomes a large factor, possibly even more-so than actual skill. If a player is online more often, they're gonna see and be able to tag attacks more effectively, farm more often, and coordinate attacks more precisely.

That being said, having a piece of crap player be online as much as a great player isn't going to make their growth equivalent, but it does make a difference, no doubt.

 

[DeletedUser]

Certainly an interesting view, and one that we shall review when building the advanced section. Thank you for your input e2ekiel

 

[DeletedUser]

Certainly an interesting view, and one that we shall review when building the advanced section. Thank you for your input e2ekiel

Knowing what do to and how to correct build your buildings.
After a point, farming income doesn't matter (red wh, 10 hour queues everywhere, etc.), and all that matters is which buildings you build. That is what sets apart rank 1 from rank 20.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd go with farming all the time unless there is a time issue, all that extra res is very useful for the nobles, especially on coin worlds (and when you get to a certain size that the cost of nobles actually starts crippling your account, farming is a must then). Knowing what to do... could you elaborate upon that please, as that can mean a lot of things in TW. Correct way build your buildings... I believe that comes under strategy, where you are looking at how the world is panning out and your area as to the order that you build in early game, and in mid game so long as you have a standard build setup then then the order that they are built in doesn't really matter, aside from the wall being priority. It is a good point that you have mentioned though and is duly noted

Oh and on a side note: I prefer 24/7 queues, it means my nukes are building at the fastest pace possible so I can send them out again within 15.7 days of losing them

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't believe that guides can be written for "advanced play". There are already guides covering every aspect of gameplay. What makes a player turn from being a reasonable player in to being a strong player, is being able to make logical calls based on the situation at hand, and to be able to predict what the enemy is going to do.

No guide can teach people to make logical calls, as situations rarely ever are identical. No guide can teach people to predict what your opponent will do, because you have to be able to understand how each opponent's mind works, and what tactics they are more fond of. Unless you wish to spend a few years researching in to understanding minds across the internet, and then publishing academia on it, anything you write to try and cover that topic in any useful way will be useless.

Also, I would consider having experienced people help you with your project. Judging by your forum join date, you may not have even read the vast majority of guides available to users, and so your own project will likely not have the value of other people's opinions and ideas within them. Or indeed have the ingame experience and ability necessary to be able to write guides in the first place.

 

[Nauzhror]

Would agree with Googly, I don't think a guide can ever be made that will turn someone into an "advanced" player. The best players didn't get that way from guides, they got that way from hand on experience, and more importantly, experimentation.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thanks for your input guys

Never judge a join date googly, I have been playing TW since 2007
I know that I do not know everything, at most I would put myself in the moderate level of skill. As a result I have gathered a group of people together to help out in the research and construction of the project, one of them being Lisa, the community manager here . Research is key to this project, and many hours will be spent pouring over as many guides as I can get my hands on, analysing them and discussing them with my project team. Also I will most likely be asking the community questions and queries to get their thoughts and opinions on certain matters, using a wide range knowledge from the people out there. I have posted this thread here, on the uk server, in my tribe forums, and now on the .net server so I can gather a wide range of responses to analyse. This project is huge, and at some stages may even need monetary funding to help it along. Once it gets towards completion then the plan is to invite 9 people from the us server, 9 people from the uk server and 9 people from the .net server to test, review and analyse the project. That way any final tweaks can be made before the project is then presented in its entirety to the public. The current estimate to completion is 6 - 9 months, but that could easily go up to a year, even a year and a half.
With every part of the project I'm not just looking at guides, I'm looking at tips and tricks that people reveal and utilise to great effect to get to the top 5 and hold their place there. Looking at different strategies, methods of play, how the game worlds affect decisions etc. I hope to be able to teach someone as much as possible with this project, to go as far as I can without someone learning from experience, or at least aid with experience. It is likely with the advanced section that a lot of maths and tools will be provided instead of guides to further ones understanding of the game and its mechanics.

Thanks for your input to this though guys, it is really appreciated

Oh and nauz if you want to find out more about the project then we can chat on skype about it

 

[DeletedUser]

Something you guys really aren't hitting on is that great players, do great things with the collaboration of others. The greatest feats in TW have been accomplished by multiple players working together. Any player can get as good as they want, but only the best can work with others in an extremely efficient manner. Any 1 player can be brought down by proper strategy, even if it is just grinding.. but a group of players that coherently work together, now that is something great.

 

[DeletedUser]

I hope to be able to teach someone as much as possible with this project, to go as far as I can without someone learning from experience, or at least aid with experience.

I have issues with this comment. I don't see how it is fun to learn to play the game without learning from experience. I wouldn't join a game, read for hours on end about it but not actually play. I'd give it a go, see how I do and then if I think I need to read up on bits, I'd ask someone in the game who seems competent at it, and get advice or good links from them.

It would be taking away from the experience of a game if you don't try to do things for the most part on your own, and without experience no guide will be of much realistic use.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have issues with this comment. I don't see how it is fun to learn to play the game without learning from experience. I wouldn't join a game, read for hours on end about it but not actually play. I'd give it a go, see how I do and then if I think I need to read up on bits, I'd ask someone in the game who seems competent at it, and get advice or good links from them.

It would be taking away from the experience of a game if you don't try to do things for the most part on your own, and without experience no guide will be of much realistic use.

I completely agree, a guide can never take over the importance of experience. Neither do I want people to be reading for hours on end, especially when you are just starting out at the game. What I would like to do with the "guide" is to provide a centre of knowledge in a well laid out format that people can keep coming back to when they want to find something. A sort of one-stop place to find out everything about TW. As a graphic designer myself I will be applying my skills to the layout and presentation of the "guide", making it easy to read and also making it easy to navigate. It is a huge project, and as I have said monetary funding will no doubt be involved in the process, probably for hiring website designers/professional graphic designers, for hosting etc.

I'm sure as I write stuff up I will stress the the importance of applying the knowledge and learning from experience, as that is the only way you can really learn

 

[DeletedUser]

What I would like to do with the "guide" is to provide a centre of knowledge in a well laid out format that people can keep coming back to when they want to find something. A sort of one-stop place to find out everything about TW.

Here's the thing - there comes a certain point (when you are what I would call an "advanced" player) when it's just your decisions that matter, as you should by this point know the fundamentals. And that's the whole psychological thing again.

So, whilst I think that this for all I know could be a fantastic project (although I have no idea who is working on the project and so cannot say for sure, considering the last project like this failed for various reasons), I don't think it should be a project aiming at doing more than getting people from "first time playing" to "being able to know how to do, and do, all the fundamentals". Trying to be a source of information that cannot actually be provided, will just make the whole project probably less useful.

 

[DeletedUser1180]

Something you guys really aren't hitting on is that great players, do great things with the collaboration of others. The greatest feats in TW have been accomplished by multiple players working together. Any player can get as good as they want, but only the best can work with others in an extremely efficient manner. Any 1 player can be brought down by proper strategy, even if it is just grinding.. but a group of players that coherently work together, now that is something great.

And again we agree
You could ask Noise on how to be best in startup - and also what can make it fail. So can The Smashnasty tell you. And Kenny and Footloose on Chris2218 on how to maintain rank 1 till the end...

But what is usually not talked about in tutorials - as far as I know - is the influence of the tribe. Most of the technical stuff you can find in tutorials.
For Dryke US1 was his first world ever but his role as a duke throughout has been big. Also good operation planners are very important: to combine the force of the tribe and keep everyone moving. And diplomates combined with strategic thinkers: see long term developments and decide which tribe to ally and where to expect threats and use other tribes to fight those. You don't read often how politics work and how tribes can be wrecked from the inside out. Or how a merger can be used to ruin the bigger/stronger tribe. (ask Footloose or just read US1 Ego404 tribe journal)
My own worries have always been how to keep the tribe together and everyone involved. My own account dropped a lot after we merged with 404. But working together and putting the tribe on a higher level makes a strong group of players from which all can benefit.

And than there is the art of making a tribe: just putting strong players together will only give you high quality loose sand. Also sharing responsibility as council is important. If someone disappears for some time because of RL stuff should still keep on moving...
And what a lot of tribes have to deal with: find new co-players and new players on existing account. The reason why I play on several worlds under other names than my us1 playersname. Not just a case of looking at the technical abilities but most of all if players have a click.

O and one last thing: skype. Because good accounts usually have co-players if you want to have discussions you need to have a forum outside the of TW forum.
It very soon became clear that the AD merger with Sie AQ would not succeed. On skype the main AD-group discussed issues and a few good players from Sie AQ were added there. So making the new Ego tribe was easy and was up and running again in days because communication never had stopped. And we use it also to have subgroups: we have a beer-chat for our rather large group german speakers. If something is not clear a few of us can say what it is about. Keeps everyone involved and that is what it is about.

 

[Nauzhror]

And again we agree
You could ask Noise on how to be best in startup - and also what can make it fail.

Best, Noise? You must be joking. US5 he proved quite clearly that he isn't very good at startup unless he has a great area to support him.

I'm not saying he's bad, he's not, but he's absolutely nothing close to being the best at startup.

 

[DeletedUser1180]

Best, Noise? You must be joking. US5 he proved quite clearly that he isn't very good at startup unless he has a great area to support him.

I'm not saying he's bad, he's not, but he's absolutely nothing close to being the best at startup.

Just the facts:
Noise was first to have 2 villages on US2, US3 and US4. And on US5 his surrounding was spiked. Just as Smashnasty had his surroundings spiked heavily on US3, forcing him to restart.

 

[DeletedUser188]

a great account: very active acc, this means 20 hours a day at least, best is 24+players who know how to build up, farm, snipe... well.

This is only possible if the account is played by at least 2, i vay even 3 experienced players(3 is the best, for decisions that need to be make for example).

Being active and experienced is not enough to be part of the top 3 in 9 out of 10 worlds.
You need to know what you have to build. As every startup is different due to settings, and especially the players around you, it is hard to follow a strict guideline.
I never use the same guideline for 100%.
What i do is:
- Go for Lc from the beginning on
- Then go for axes
- Farm as much as i can and raise Hq and stables
- Go for academy when my farm 26 is full so that i have nobles with farm 28
- Noble 2-3 good villages

 

[Nauzhror]

Just the facts:
Noise was first to have 2 villages on US2, US3 and US4. And on US5 his surrounding was spiked. Just as Smashnasty had his surroundings spiked heavily on US3, forcing him to restart.

This is .us, your examples are like saying someone who is the smartest in their kindergarten class must be the smartest man alive.

On US5 Noise was not that heavily spiked either, and only really got spiked badly at all after he started spiking someone else with both his own account and a sat account. His fault that they found out and retaliated.

I can name at least 20 people better at startup than Noise is.

 

[DeletedUser188]

I can name at least 20 people better at startup than Noise is.

gimma their names!

 

[Nauzhror]

gimma their names!

Cory9289
Dentarthurdent
Garrock
godsman
Hasoona
hoang.nghiem
Hoodoo
Jamm
JChilds
Krono5
Lardingd
mattcurr
Miggy
murderousmouse
One Hit KO
Purple Predator
Raoul Duke
Robj
Sneggy
Vpar2

Not hard at all to come up with 20, even 50 would probably be doable if I thought long and hard.

EDIT: They're intentionally in alphabetical order so that it's understood that they're by no means listed in some sort of order from best to worst.

 

[DeletedUser]

MTAR
Ston3d
M A R I O

I'd say those 3 were as well, personally. I can think of several others too, but it's not so easy to compare.